Staffing Handling lore-heavy sites

[Anonymous 234]

I've got a very original, lore-heavy site. The setting has thousands of words worth of documentation to it, a lot of love and world-building thought was poured into it, and it shows. You know, one of those massive, old medieval fantasy boards you know the name of, but were always afraid of joining. I know it's always been somewhat normal that a player will join, cursorily glance over the documentations, if they bother to do that, and then try and wing the rest. All that lore can't be there for a reason, right, so who cares if they actually fit their character into the world.

 

I suppose, I have several questions, here:

1. Has anyone figured out why people join sites with this huge amount of lore, and then try ignoring it?
2. Is there some secret family recipe to mitigate this happening, or do I just keep taking their hand and setting it on the lore like I have been?
3. How does one strike a balance between developed-setting and ample-wiggle-room? Because it seems like you'll always be either one or the other, depending on the amount of world-building that happens.
4. On that note, has anyone found ways of making a solid, developed setting more ... wiggly? (Is that a thing? It is now.)

Anonymous poster hash: d0438...bc8

[Verridith 66]

It's difficult, but definitely doable! Took me 15 years to perfect my formula, and if I can make the process easier for anyone else, I definitely want to xD

 

So my site has tons of lore. I mean over 80 playable races, 10 solid worlds, and everything from canonical books to info on how space works, flora, fauna, custom languages, our own date/time system, stupid amounts of gods, and more always coming in. To the casual observer, it's a lot - and having a lot of lore is definitely not for everyone. That's okay though! You can't make a site cater to every single person in the world, no matter how hard you try.

 

So in answer to your questions:

 

1. Hoomans be lazy and hedonistic. It's just a thing. Say I like the lore of this one fantasy site; at least what little I've read of it. I join, and I immediately jump into making a character even before reading whatever I need to read to actually make that character work. I, as a human, want to hop right in without all that crud, so I do. And when my char gets pended and the reasons why it wouldn't work, I get mad at leave.

 

You'll come across that more than once in an admin; because humans are humans. I admit that in the past when I used to join other sites, my brain was everywhere else but where it needed to be and I did just this, even though I tried to be polite about it. Looking back, I was a lazy, hedonistic hooman who wanted to do stuff now and not spend all that time reading stuff LOL. BUT! That's also okay, because there are different humans who will dedicate a little bit more time to reading what they need to read, and those are the ones you want to attract.

 

2. A couple of things that I've found that are exceedingly helpful:

- Keep your required reading to an absolute minimum; TOS, character rules and a newbie guide at a good start.

- Have a section of your staff or members dedicated to helping newbies; answer their questions, direct them to important pages, start their first thread, etc (on my site we call them 'Mentors')

- Always have helpful links and things on hand, in plain view, for newbies to access (on Discord we have custom commands that bring up info and links when used)

 

Our mentoring program has worked wonders. Like legit wonders LOL! A newbie joins and they're directed to the newbie guide. They go through the joining process and pick a mentor. Then, that mentor helps them through their first character and either starts their first thread or helps them find their first thread, then sticks around for advice and help until they are considered proper members. It's great!

 

3. Always make guidelines, but leave as few restrictions as possible. As an example, we (obviously xD) have dragons. All kinds of dragons. Our different variants are dictated by limb count and not overall appearance, color, or ability - so within those small guidelines, you can theoretically make any sort of dragon look like anything with any power. It's a difficult balance, but achievable!

 

4. ...Kinda the same answer as above. xD Guidelines, not hard and strict skeletons.

 

Hope this helps!! ❤️

[Huskerdust 625]

So I've recently learned that me + heavy lore = not a good mix. So this is a good one for me to answer. 

 

Your Questions:

1. Has anyone figured out why people join sites with this huge amount of lore, and then try ignoring it? So this is a bit tricky but... sometimes you like the people or you want to help out somebody that helps you, so despite normal protocol, you go ahead and join a site with restrictive lore. Now I'm not one to like restrictions. I pretty much tell anybody who joins my sites that their witch or vampire or werewolf can be a different brand of that thing and I encourage creativity everywhere I can. In fact, I LOVE it when members come aboard with all the ideas! It jump starts creativity in others and I don't know man, I just love it! But yeah, so I'll join for a friend mostly. These days I think I'm just better off staying away, no matter how cool the basic background premise is because I just can't work under those conditions.
2. Is there some secret family recipe to mitigate this happening, or do I just keep taking their hand and setting it on the lore like I have been? Since I don't run sites like this, I don't have any advice for you but I wish that I did. As a member on such sites, I get frustrated when I'm constantly told I'm "wrong." The lore was definitely written for a reason but I have ADHD and it's really difficult for me to focus on loads of lore. I've tried to just pay attention to the things that matter to my character but I've still gotten things heinously wrong. Plus, it's just hard for me to even remember it all and I dislike constantly having to refer back to rule books and such. So that's where I fall apart as a member. If you have less hot-headed or anxious members, I think the approach of explaining lore will work. But for most of us, we're going to get annoyed that we're always wrong. I think if you do have to correct somebody (and it will happen on a lore heavy fantasy site!) just try to be friendly and approachable about it! If you make it sound more like a friendly suggestion than a condescending backhand, you'll definitely get more cooperation. 
3. How does one strike a balance between developed-setting and ample-wiggle-room? Because it seems like you'll always be either one or the other, depending on the amount of world-building that happens. I think it depends on where you're willing to compromise. Members will come in with story ideas of their own that they want to build on, so don't be too surprised or annoyed by that. And sometimes those ideas might bend your canon a little. If it's something truly game breaking, I would definitely have them back down and stop. If it's something that can be waffled a little, I'd ask myself if it's worth the fight it might start. (Or the member it might drive out?) 
4. On that note, has anyone found ways of making a solid, developed setting more ... wiggly? (Is that a thing? It is now.) I think every setting can be made a little bit wigglier. Since this seems to be a reoccurring problem, I would take a look at the things that commonly get messed up when your members create characters. Think about the documentation and whether it states certain things clearly. Maybe bold or make headers for the most important items that you are NOT willing to wiggle on. Then think about what you'd be willing to free up a little more for the ease of new members. If it's something you don't think will be a big deal, maybe drop it or find a way to make it more open to members. 

I hope this helps! 

[JD Hart 72]

On 11/17/2018 at 6:17 AM, Anonymous said:

I've got a very original, lore-heavy site. The setting has thousands of words worth of documentation to it, a lot of love and world-building thought was poured into it, and it shows. You know, one of those massive, old medieval fantasy boards you know the name of, but were always afraid of joining. I know it's always been somewhat normal that a player will join, cursorily glance over the documentations, if they bother to do that, and then try and wing the rest. All that lore can't be there for a reason, right, so who cares if they actually fit their character into the world.

 

I suppose, I have several questions, here:

1. Has anyone figured out why people join sites with this huge amount of lore, and then try ignoring it?
2. Is there some secret family recipe to mitigate this happening, or do I just keep taking their hand and setting it on the lore like I have been?
3. How does one strike a balance between developed-setting and ample-wiggle-room? Because it seems like you'll always be either one or the other, depending on the amount of world-building that happens.
4. On that note, has anyone found ways of making a solid, developed setting more ... wiggly? (Is that a thing? It is now.)

Anonymous poster hash: d0438...bc8

 

 

I have quite a lot of lore on my site. I thought I had a lot but I'm starting to realise I'm kinda middling. The best advice I can give would be -

 

1. Try and link it to something understandable so there is an immediate concept in the minds of your reader. So, for example, my site is an ancient world site set in Greece. BUT the kingdoms are fictional - so we are more inspired by than specific, real locations that actually existed. So, the little tidbit I usually throw in is saying to people - if you're watched Troy or Ben-Hur and you think your plot idea would look out of place in either of those movies, you're probably going wrong. Something that people can immediately get a general "gist" from, is a good idea.

 

2. Secondly, make a basics. Give a full run down of the world but in short and sweet and simple to understand format. A very short paragraph on each race or each kingdom or whatever it is that you have. Give everything to everyone in one quick skim read document.

 

3. THEN you can have all your detail. Make sure to link up your basics page with loads of "Read more here..." links, so that people know what and where you're referring to things and allow them to explore. They'll read the bits relevant to their characters and it won't look too scary.

 

4. Easily understood Encyclopedia. Make sure that everything you have is well structured. A larger number of shorter easier to grasp entries will work better than longer essays. I know it might feel natural to put certain things together but if you end up with too long a page people will stop reading. Verridith is right - people are lazy. So make sure you don't give them too large a task (aka reading) to complete at any one time.

 

5. Font size. Bigger fonts make it seem like less text. Silly, given that they actually make the text stretch further down the page. But tiny font will only make it seem like there's a ton of very boring content. Larger font is naturally more friendly and easier to access, mentally.

 

6. Images, pictures and layouts. Make the page *pretty*. We're all shallow beings when it comes to giving our time to stuff and we like things that look pretty. So try and make each page have illustrations and a nice template. If you make your lore feel like part of the rp experience (aka - make it look like some kind of journal or old tome they've just discovered) if feels more like you're already playing the game rather than just getting through all this pre-requisite reading before you can get involved >.<

 

7. Newcomer Guide. Can't stress this enough. Maybe it's the same thing as your basics page, maybe not, but a newcomer guide with a really obvious link that is an immediate lifeline for anyone who looks at your lore and goes "whoah argh too much!" is a really good shout...

 

 

As for your questions -

 

1. Has anyone figured out why people join sites with this huge amount of lore, and then try ignoring it?

I think this is less to do with ignoring it and more to do with trying to make their own stamp on the world. All writers are creative beings - we all want to know that our contributions to the world we're rping in are being recognised and that something is left of us. It's a natural human desire. I have members able to make Houses, factions and guilds on my site for this very reason. I can't create all this content by myself - so I invite members to partake and to make up stuff they like that can *add* to the world, instead of them trying to carve our a bit of my own written lore to make space.

 

2. Is there some secret family recipe to mitigate this happening, or do I just keep taking their hand and setting it on the lore like I have been?

The latter I'm afraid. I find that my members are pretty good at following my lead on this one though. If you have a very clearly organised information board and you have a Newcomer Guide in place then my members tend to mimic me and provide links to newcomers when I'm not around. 😄

3. How does one strike a balance between developed-setting and ample-wiggle-room? Because it seems like you'll always be either one or the other, depending on the amount of world-building that happens.
4. On that note, has anyone found ways of making a solid, developed setting more ... wiggly? (Is that a thing? It is now.)

Allow your members a space in which to create. Okay, so you might not want to make any additional races and you might not want new kingdoms, but how about rebellious factions or religious orders? I also include my members with decisions regarding additions to the site. So, for example, we are currently approaching a member count that can sustain a Realm Vote - aka we currently have Ancient Greece and we're going to expand and create another realm. Now, I've given two options for this Realm - Rome and Africa/Egypt - so I have control over what I'm adding to the site. BUT I've said whichever one it is is up to the member's decision. So they will vote on which we get. It gets everyone very excited, they talk about which they want to vote on and it makes them feel like their creativity and choices are valued. Even though, at the end of the day, the realm that gets added is still one of the two I've chosen. 

 

 

Hope this helps! ❤️

[Gothic 307]

AeRo is AU and has about a RL decade of events, so there are times when we need to remind members that the site is different to actual history. Here are some things I have found (and I will be using when I update the info). 

 

1. Has anyone figured out why people join sites with this huge amount of lore, and then try ignoring it?

 

I think people do genuinely forget the lore sometimes when the muses get flowing, or their memory slips. 

1. Is there some secret family recipe to mitigate this happening, or do I just keep taking their hand and setting it on the lore like I have been?

Reminders that things are different. Sometimes having an IC reaction (particularly an unfavourable one) can help to remind them that the lore is in place for a reason. Say Bob Joe says a different ruler is king or something and gets mocked for it. I do think that a note OOC is a good idea though. 

1. How does one strike a balance between developed-setting and ample-wiggle-room? Because it seems like you'll always be either one or the other, depending on the amount of world-building that happens.

It depends, and this can be tricky. I've found that it depends on what it is. You could leave things open. In RP I have found things change or people gain positions if members go inactive, etc. 

1. On that note, has anyone found ways of making a solid, developed setting more ... wiggly? (Is that a thing? It is now.)

It depends on if you mean their characters being prominent outside. For example, Bob is prominent in the Mistbane province but comes to the capital as a nobody (not as favoured/powerful) but then King Harold promotes him to Captain of the Sexy pants in RP. 

Edited November 28, 2018 by Gothic

[Anonymous 234]

Ah, pretty much what I've gotten here is, I'm doing everything right, people are just people. Good note. I figured as much, just, thought maybe there was something I was missing. Been at this for several years now, it just seems like it's getting worse over time (I just had four or five of them do it in a row, one of which even tried to fight me about my own lore and insisted I was the one that was wrong about it rofl that's still pretty hilarious), and I was wondering if the problem had switched to being on my end.

 

S'always different stuff they mess up. I figure it's just dependent on what they bother to read and what they decide to skip over. I was considering ripping a bunch of the lore out, given nobody seems terribly interested in lore-heavy sites anyway, nowadays, but, maybe gutting my setting isn't worth it. That's several years of playing in it that'd be gone, probably kind of rude to the players that have been with it longer than a few weeks. Oh well. Thanks for the help, anyway, all.

Anonymous poster hash: d0438...bc8

[Morrigan 1,826]

• Has anyone figured out why people join sites with this huge amount of lore, and then try ignoring it? Some people ignore it, most people forget. Some people, like me, get confused. Whether the lore is similar or the same or whatever to some other site things can get blurry, especially for members that are a part of a few sites.
• Is there some secret family recipe to mitigate this happening, or do I just keep taking their hand and setting it on the lore like I have been? Yes and no? So the Yes is, always direct them to guides. At the same time, don't look for lore inaccuracies unless another member of your site points them out. If they don't break your forum or your lore then maintain. Honestly being heavy handed in lore can be extremely stifling. No member wants an admin or staff member to take them aside like a teacher taking a bad child aside to tell them that they aren't playing by the rules. It feels shitty and makes the environment feel condescending and unwelcoming. Even if you feel it's necessary you need to create more attractive ways to approach it! "Hey! It was brought to my attention that you may be having trouble with some of the XYZ (and this could be culture, rules, location etc) of our site! We have a really cool article here and if you have any questions the staff team is here to answer your questions to help you!" This is similar to the feeling stated in another post here. Users don't like to be told they are "wrong" it makes them feel unwelcome or generally yucky. Make it less like they aren't doing it right and more like "this is the way to do it right! We love you!"
• How does one strike a balance between developed-setting and ample-wiggle-room? Because it seems like you'll always be either one or the other, depending on the amount of world-building that happens. Ample wiggle room is dependent on the staff team. You have to know how much you want to budge on any thing and how much user created content you're willing to add to the lore. If that content is limited to what they contribute IC, than that's where the limit is. If the limit is giving them the ability to actively contribute let them do that. It's good to set the precendent and stick with it though. So don't change because of pushy and shitty members.
• On that note, has anyone found ways of making a solid, developed setting more ... wiggly? (Is that a thing? It is now.) I mean The Doctor made "Wibbly Wobbly Timey Wimey" a thing so why not wiggly lore? This goes back to my previous answer. You need to know your limits and what you're willing to budge on. If you're not willing to budge on something don't budge.

Remember, you build the site for the TYPE of people you want to attract. If you are attracting lore ignoring wiggly wanting assholes then maybe you need to review what you are putting forth and out there. If you're willing to be more wiggly then you need to take the time and figure out "how" wiggly, what you want to wiggle on. If you don't, you need to be more clear on what your expectations are. Sites like @Samantha's Sinsomnia have been doing it for ages. You just have to stick to your guns.

[Surinen 7]

I've found that making established, lore heavy fandoms accessible relies on a super-duper admin/mod team during character approvals; and a welcoming venue (discord, these days) where established players are willing and eager to help out a newbie.  Folks crave connection and validation, if you provide that via your process and your community, the rest comes naturally.  Invested newbies will want to read the lore sections referenced by their new friends, and boom! Before long, you'll have a new, established player (hopefully) willing to help out the next newbie to come along. ❤️ 

The character approval area is where the 'wiggle room' comes into play, I've often asked for less history, more personality from folks I can tell have skipped the lore so they can get started.