Staffing Progression

[Byrn 102]

((lol if you've seen this elsewhere bear with me XD.  spamming all support areas cause i know not everyone lurks on all of them.))

 

I need some help. Our site is on a small hiatus - everyone is busy and some are burned out (me) - so I am using my mini vacation time to consider something we always struggle with. Story line progression. A lot of the time I feel like I am stuck in a repeat video of a Scooby Doo episode where they scramble to take off. Ya know.... feet are moving exceptionally fast and no traction is being gained so they go nowhere before darting off? Only we haven't done any darting. 

 

So I need to pick brains. How to you manage story or world plot progression? And possibly in a way that might not depend on important roles that are not filled or have participated only to go inactive.

 

Has anyone done stand-alone chapters? I am seriously considering this. If you progress your world plot through chapters I want to know ALL THE THINGS. If you have an active site doing this I wanna see it. Give me all the information because I have only briefly witnessed something like this ages ago but I wasn't a member so my actual knowledge is limited. It's just a thing that I saw one time...

 

I know of a site that pooled important roles into a list of NPCs. I honestly really liked this...  Though I am unsure of whether or not this would be a turn off - at large. I know special positions are a big attractant to new members because who doesn't want to play a king or queen or some powerful mage? But what do you think of reserving them all as NPC for staff or a dungeon master of sorts to control. I really think, if a world plot depends on important political action and response then it might be beneficial for progression ... if these roles were just npc's, not available to anyone. Thoughts?

 

How do you keep track of events that have happened in role play that were part of the main story in some way?

 

[Morrigan 1,826]

@StormWolfe does it in chapters. I think @Elena may be able to help as well. 

[JD Hart 72]

Hey Maevis!

 

Aeipathy is my first site that I've adminned so I have no idea if I do it right or wrong but we seem to gain traction so clearly there's something going on that's working 😄

 

If it helps, here are some of the things I do -

 

1. I have the main plot/setting of each kingdom (we have three) written at the top of each category on the main page. This way people have a constant reminder of what is happening there.

 

2. I do weekly events. The way we did it (at least at the start) was that I post a Weekly Broadcast every week with all the new players, new characters, site updates etc etc but also a new Event. So there is a new voluntary event every single week. Some of them are more tied into the main plots some of them are a little less so. But the introductions/summaries that I write for them are always referring to the current plot of the kingdom or what have you, so it feels like progression... We now have so many people getting involved in the events that they take longer to complete so I don't do one every week anymore - more like every two or three.

 

3. I throw out new content. We do what's called Curve Balls plots - which are literally just small things that keep people wondering what is happening around the corner. Eg. Georgios of Leventi (an NPC but father to multiple characters who are being played already) has suddenly fallen ill... and just before that I wrote a thread about how my character is talking to a poison merchant... It gets people talking and theorising.

 

4. We have very prominent global plots. Yes our members write their own stories and their own additional stuff off the main ones but our main plots are very prominent and demanding of attention. This isn't everyone's cup of tea, so it depends on how you want to do your site 😄

 

5. In terms of getting new people to jump in on existing plots to stop that cyclical thing happening, we have different features - we have a thread-finder channel on Discord, we have a Cliff Notes page in our Encyclopedia (giving you a quick run down of specific inter-personal stories)... we have cheat sheets and we have a large thread directory which lists all currently active threads in chronological order, so people can explore.

 

6. We also have a whole bunch of canons for whom the rule is they are an NPC that can be controlled by anyone so long as they are insync with the Canon description of the character (so that when someone takes them they don't have a conflicting back story).

 

With regards to global plots, I have a lot of different ideas (I have a database of them) but I always adjust, tweak or just throw things out of the window if they don't work with the current character base. I also try and get as many people involved in any one plot as I can - so that it becomes big, complex and interesting. This keeps people excited and wading through plots/threads longer which gives you breathing time to come up with new material for after that 😄

 

We're currently approaching our 6 month mark and we're still focusing on some of the plots that we started off with, but it doesn't feel like we're not going anywhere - we've been writing tonnes and everyone is super involved... So I think we're doing well... our challenge is always getting newcomers involved in the bigger plotlines (because the bigger plotlines are so important on our site) but different sites doing different things will have different challenges.

 

Hope this helps! ❤️

[Deep Sea 326]

I'm gonna watch the hell of out this thread, because I have the same problem. I ran a roleplay with chapters though, so I can tell you all about that.

 

We modeled ourselves after the idea of Saturday morning cartoons, so each chapter was a new thread called an episode, and I tried to have an A plot and B plot in each episode. The A plot was typically a villain or criminal that needed to be defeated (I'm very fond of the monster of the week format for shounen-esque roleplays), and the B plot was something less actiony and more world or character building. 

 

Sort of like Payday where you have one guy drawing all the police fire with sweet shootout action scenes, and another guy in the back of the bank trying to drill through all the safes and grab that sweet loot before everyone runs for the chopper, expect in this case the loot is intel that hopefully leads to plot progression and the chopper is the deadline on episodes because I was a mean GM and would try to shut down the thread after 4-6 months.

 

The time limit is sort of hit-or-miss. Actually, it's really hit-or-miss. Actually actually, it's hitting with guaranteed missing.

 

After the first few weeks, interest would die down as people dragged their feet on posting. Then the deadline would creep up, and I would extend the deadline because no one has even walked away far enough to trigger the villain. Then I'd extend it again because finals. Then I'd say "okay, we are locking this thread on X date". And then there would be a flurry of posts and we'd get a third of the way through what I had planned, and the thread would lock. 

 

That's about when I learned the importance of side episodes where people could get their six in-game hours of character development in. It was also, coincidentally, about when I started having flashbacks to the fantasy high school RP I ran that was sixty pages long (fifteen posts per page) before it died out, and it was still the first day of school in-character.

[Byrn 102]

@JD Hart It was helpful! In a way we did a lot of those things? A lot of movement is being made, just without the actual traction. And admittedly a lot of it has to do with characters involved growing inactive so things get stagnant. So it left us with a lot of half-complete stuff. We would give anything for members to push the progress but at the moment it is a lot of staff picking up peices and moving things where it should be and then later doing the same thing. Essentially, its a lot of thrashing and getting nowhere lol. The world plot, as it is, is essentially in the same place it was when we started.  So that led me to chapters - where staff set up a goal and basically facilitate a thread around a main idea for only one goal, to progress.  And that may mean if the thread falls short then staff end it with a 'this is what happened'. Or do we do an event that is 'related' and we just charge the storyline ourselves?

@Deep SeaYep... that's pretty much it. So this is also why I am toying with the idea of dropping canons or important roles and just creating a list of NPC's.  But your post is everything we are facing. We are sort of scratching our heads.  We we just completely take over the world plot and host 'quests' leading up to those progressive turning points that staff basically write themselves based on the presented quests? Or just let everyone have a go at it and hope we don't get stuck because someone lost steam?

 

 

Edited November 17, 2018 by Maevis

[Deep Sea 326]

@Maevis What I found with my players is that whenever I put up a deadline such as "On X day IRL Y event will begin" not only would there be a small flurry of posts from a few players trying to wrap things up - but everyone else would stop posting to wait for the event.

[JD Hart 72]

49 minutes ago, Maevis said:

@JD Hart It was helpful! In a way we did a lot of those things? A lot of movement is being made, just without the actual traction. And admittedly a lot of it has to do with characters involved growing inactive so things get stagnant. So it left us with a lot of half-complete stuff. We would give anything for members to push the progress but at the moment it is a lot of staff picking up peices and moving things where it should be and then later doing the same thing. Essentially, its a lot of thrashing and getting nowhere lol. The world plot, as it is, is essentially in the same place it was when we started.  So that led me to chapters - where staff set up a goal and basically facilitate a thread around a main idea for only one goal, to progress.  And that may mean if the thread falls short then staff end it with a 'this is what happened'. Or do we do an event that is 'related' and we just charge the storyline ourselves?

 

 

 

Do you think the story progression might be hindered by member staying power rather than how you're doing it then? It sounds like you're doing stuff pretty good if the story is *progressing* at least - you're just kinda rolling a ball that isn't picking anything up or growing because the characters involved are a cycle of new ones? Sorry if that's the wrong interpretation - that's kinda what I'm picking up on here...

 

I don't mean to pry but perhaps it's the community/member retainment side that needs to be looked at and then if people stick better the plots might grow and have that traction you're looking for? So, perhaps it's not the plot stuff that is the issue at all?

 

I dunno, sorry, I'm just spitballing here >.<

[Elena 546]

Yes, it is a problem I have been always confronted with too. We brainstormed together for each plot. Sometimes we got several proposals, so it was: "now it is October, the hurricane makes more sense, and we'll have the plague in November, after the hurricane", or "the plot you proposed for Jamaica makes more sense in Saint Domingue, where we have more people, as it requires a larger participation." But they always happened. 

 

And some people went inactive. Sometimes, even those who proposed the event. It had happened a lot. But once we agreed the larger details, the plot happened as agreed. No matter if 2 or 3 people only would write lots of NPCs besides their own characters, if others didn't care for writing. 

 

As for NPCs, yes, we have them. But they aren't reserved only for the staff. Anyone who has time can write that NPC into a thread. For the next thread, it remains to be seen if the same writer has time/ is interested. But the character remains and is available, no matter which writer is available.  

[Byrn 102]

1 hour ago, JD Hart said:

 

Do you think the story progression might be hindered by member staying power rather than how you're doing it then? It sounds like you're doing stuff pretty good if the story is *progressing* at least - you're just kinda rolling a ball that isn't picking anything up or growing because the characters involved are a cycle of new ones? Sorry if that's the wrong interpretation - that's kinda what I'm picking up on here...

 

I don't mean to pry but perhaps it's the community/member retainment side that needs to be looked at and then if people stick better the plots might grow and have that traction you're looking for? So, perhaps it's not the plot stuff that is the issue at all?

 

I dunno, sorry, I'm just spitballing here >.<

 

Yeah the two go hand in hand. And it can be a bit of a snowball. Plot goes nowhere so people lose interest plus important roles don't hold water when those playing them fizzle out.  Just progression is what I draw a blank at. 

 

@Elena Even with 'rulers' and such?  If I make them NPC I have zero intention of letting someone take the position down the road. It would be permanent  for important roles or just NPC of large political figures. There would be a lot of 'letting go' on my part for sure. But then again it could be easily monitored in an event or mission/quest thread ((and could very well make the outcome of something very surprising with shared NPC's)). And a ruler and such would likely not be used on a regular basis outside of those events anyway? So then we wind up with something that is far more character driven?

 

We could definitely outline plans? Kind of like an outline for a book and the roleplay is the meat and potatoes of it all? I'm just not sure about pre-defining an outcome if that makes any sense. My staff and I definitely have an idea of what will happen but don't want it to feel like nothing anyone does in rp will make a difference or could alter it.

Edited November 17, 2018 by Maevis

[Elena 546]

1 hour ago, Maevis said:

 Even with 'rulers' and such?  If I make them NPC I have zero intention of letting someone take the position down the road. It would be permanent  for important roles or just NPC of large political figures. There would be a lot of 'letting go' on my part for sure. But then again it could be easily monitored in an event or mission/quest thread ((and could very well make the outcome of something very surprising with shared NPC's)). And a ruler and such would likely not be used on a regular basis outside of those events anyway? So then we wind up with something that is far more character driven?

 

We could definitely outline plans? Kind of like an outline for a book and the roleplay is the meat and potatoes of it all? I'm just not sure about pre-defining an outcome if that makes any sense. My staff and I definitely have an idea of what will happen but don't want it to feel like nothing anyone does in rp will make a difference or could alter it.

 

Well, the governors are all NPCs, so that they are available whenever the story needs them. The ship captains, some are individually player characters, others are characters shared by all staff, so that they are available anytime. Some of the crew members on the ships are NPCs, so that if the player characters don't post, someone will and the story will continue. The NPCs can be used outside the main events too, if a story requires them/ makes sense for them to be there. There is no rule against this. E.g. the governor can be opening the big Midsummer Fires festival, but he can be present, a few days later, at a private party of the high nobility too.  Why wouldn't he, if there is a writer willing to do it and has time for it? Because it makes sense. Being at a party of the gentry/ low nobility? No way to make sense.

 

It is like an outline for a book, just done collectively. The writers can make a difference by keeping their characters active, and by participating at the plotting discussion. They have a say/ can alter it through voting on the outcome or discussing, then it's up to them to implement that say, once agreed. Of course, it isn't as if they can;t bring inspiration of moment too. We know which ship wins the battle and which one loses, and the main damages, so that all the writers see the same thing. But each character can react in their own way, and bring a little suspense. The other side might seem they are winning before the last coup. Creativity is encouraged! And pre-defining an outcome (largely) is good, because everyone knows afterwards what to write according to what was commonly agreed, keeping the consistency.

[Kazetatsu 263]

I kind of think its about finding a balance. As a member I get bothered when plots move too fast(or when staff guide too much) as well as too slow. too fast, or with too much staff guidance, and I have no idea what's happening or feel like I can't effect the plot so I might bail and ignore the plot out of simply giving up.  too slow, and I might get bored of the plot as it loses momentum.

 

Thus I see a well-managed plot as having a several things.

• A flexible but fixed timeline with realistic acknowledgement of the site's pace, so that when things get slow its already been agreed upon as to when to move the plot forward, but if things are moving well the story can come to a natural ending.
• staff members who can actively keep the plot event moving during its duration. I've been in threads where I ended up waiting for a staff member to post, but they had lost momentum before the players did. Once the staff member was ready to pick up the pace, players said "wait, this isn't finished yet because we were waiting for you!"
• Room for player actions to effect the plot. The plot should  be able to be altered by player actions in as many dimensions as possible without losing momentum, including personal plots. if a few pcs take control of an enemy outpost outside of the main plot, than that outpost might be out of commission for the next plot move that uses it. If a pc leader is being stubborn in a war negotiation, maybe their faction is the next one attacked in the war, and so on.
• Conversely, room to move on when players bail. This can include having an outcome (or a few) that occurs if participating players do nothing, but which isn't treated as an inevitable result, as inevitability can be discouraging.
• A plot focus that influences areas players are interested in. A national political scandal is all well and good, but if all the players are playing slice of life day to day activities in a small town, they likely won't bite on a plot like that. They may bite however, when John Smith, that one neighbor everyone knows, ends up murdered because he said something scandalous.
• An open mind. Players will jerk plots in odd ways that you might not expect nor even want the plot to go. Other times they may  not bite despite the best of efforts. Sometimes pushing forward on the plot, isn't as useful as first looking into what might have caused the plot to stop. Communicate with players. Were they busy? did they feel like it wasn't effective to join the plot? Were there no characters they could realistically throw in? There could be a lot of reasons.

[Byrn 102]

Speaking of having a lose or general “plan” . Would it be a turn off having that visible? Sort of like a storyboard for the plot in semi-long term vision? Present the next few very pivotal points or goals visible. And allow members to plot/scheme ways to get there with obvious alternate outcomes available?

[Kazetatsu 263]

In my case, yes. A storyboard I could view as a player might easily make me think that parts of the plot are inevitable, or that I must follow a specific path that may not be in keeping with my character's style, to get to a certain result.I don't think anything that could change based on the course of the current plot should be revealed, although that things that are brewing in the background that couldn't be changed by the current plot could be hinted at, but kept vague. "small earthquakes are growing more common" "there is a strange silence from the neighboring kingdom" etc.

Edited November 17, 2018 by Kazetatsu

[c.widow 123]

9 hours ago, Maevis said:

But what do you think of reserving them all as NPC for staff or a dungeon master of sorts to control.

 

I am lazy as all get out so have not read all the replies yet, apologies if this has already been mentioned however before I lose my train of thought and read the rest I must say this.

YES. NPC for all important rolls will help to keep a site plot or other rolling. You know that your staff will be active and handle it, you do not have to worry about one person being slow to keep the ball rolling. I have also had experience with NPCs for staff and trusted member(s) to run (they prove dedication to the site, know the lore and are able to continue as basically story tellers/lore writers) and that has been a success as well. 

[Elena 546]

7 hours ago, Maevis said:

Speaking of having a lose or general “plan” . Would it be a turn off having that visible? Sort of like a storyboard for the plot in semi-long term vision? Present the next few very pivotal points or goals visible. And allow members to plot/scheme ways to get there with obvious alternate outcomes available?

 

Exactly. We have it visible, in the plot area, and open for discussion until a common agreement is reached.