Applications: Menace or Blessing?

[Shades 676]

I think I'll start this off by stating that nobody is saying you can't have applications on your site. Each site owner can do whatever they believe is better for their site, just like every member can chose to join whatever site they want to - or not to join if they're not a fit for the site. 

 

With what said:

 

Why is that?
I personally don't think being forced to write a 300-word essay on my character will make me know them better or flesh them out better. On the contrary, it'll just make me write whatever I have to and pad that word count. I know who my character is, and I can share that through a good paragraph and a bullet-point list of the important events in their life much better than I can with some arbitrary format that has me scrambling to write more than I have to say at the point of creation.

 

Is this a new general consensus?
I would say the only general consensus in the community is that we all want to RP. Everything else - apps/no apps, human/art/no face claims, word count/no word count, etc, is spread across the board, and there will always be those who love thing A, those who hate it, and those who don't mind either way. 

 

Do you prefer to have an app before posting, if so, why? If you don't, also why?
I prefer to have a very short and to the point - I hesitate to call it an app, even - general information post on my character. One I can expand upon as I go. If I see a long app with a required word count for each session, I won't go around badmouthing the site and owner. I just won't join the site, because that's not my jam.

 

tl;dr: Everyone should do what they want with their site - but that means people will join or not according to what they like or don't.

[The Rebel 44]

I personally am in the pro-app camp, but I think it depends largely on the type of site.  If you have an original lore site, it's a really good way to see if the person understands what the site is about and also really helps to show how people might be able to plot and interact with the character.   I'm sure there are other great ways, I just happen to like this one because it also provides character development along with the check and it's nice to check before the character is in play and has to make revisions because they've broken lore.  I always feel sorry when I have to ask people to edit something in posts.  

 

For example, since it's an original site if someone presents their Spanish princess when Spain does not exist we can work with them to have something that will fit in with the lore which we are more than happy to do.  I'm not saying everyone does this by any means, but we do need to have some way to check just because it will impact people's ability to plot with them.     We're not trying to be mean or force people a lot of extra work, it just really is helpful so they don't end up dead in the water.  Our members are really good about engaging new members and giving them threads, but if their app is such they have completely distanced themselves from anything going on on the board, it really can make things difficult for the new member and will not be fun for them.  This is by no means some absolute thing or that I think no one will get plots otherwise, it has just been in my experience on sites and on our site, it's been helpful for planning initial interactions or potential long-term plots.  And this being said, if they do want a character entirely unrelated to the action, and it works with lore, this is fine, but given that just about every member we have is involved, they might not be satisfied with their rp progression.  

 

Our app is free form though.  I don't particularly like personality sections and such because everyone is right, personalities evolve and a character you think will be a certain way might be something else entirely.  If people want to include them on our site, they are free to.  We've had apps entirely in the form of poems before.  There is a lot of freedom with it.  I personally like doing apps because I like to get into my character's head and it's a good reference for me in regards to their past.  Word docs could do this too, but it's nice for other members to see.  I'm not going to say what's best for individual writers, but I personally find them useful.

 

Anyway, this just works for us on our site in part because our lore is original and not based on earth history.  I also think it helps because we do have some overarching plots that would impact everyone so if someone doesn't have an app to show how they will fit into that then it is harder for plotting.  Of course, it could also be said that if they know how they will fit and can explain how they will fit, then sure the app could be considered unnecessary in that regard.  Basically, I don't think sites should be condemned either way.  It's about what works for the owners and the members.   For us, apps are not really a length requirement, but just a way to get people involved quicker.  I enjoy doing the apps because it helps me with the process of figuring out my character and how they will fit in the setting and lore and that's also why I like to have them on our site as well.  I enjoy reading apps.  

 

On fandom sites where the history is laid out and the personality is laid out, or if it's entirely open world/earth with no plot that would directly impact the player, I see less of a reason for the application, but I also would likely still want to do one.  These sites can be tons of fun, and whether there is an app or not does not indicate how fun a site will be.  I definitely see the appeal of just being able to jump right in.  As has been said, though, people like them or they don't.  The great thing is you can generally find sites that require apps and sites that don't!  I'm sorry to miss out on the wonderful writers who will avoid the board because of the app, but ultimately people are going to go with the sites that cater to what they want to do with it.  There's no right or wrong way to do it.  It's about what people enjoy.  Apps simply work well for us on our site.

 

@River  I have to say, I really love the idea of app updates.  

 

Aaand this has turned into a ramble, sorry. I find it an interesting topic^^

 

[StormWolfe 557]

I cannot speak to everyone's use of character apps (I still call them character profiles or bios on my sites). However, our sites do not use shippers, plotters, etc. so scanning a few bios is how our people decide who to contact for their plots. In general, I see them as an useful tool for seeing the sorts of characters in-play and how mine might fit in.

 

As an Admin, I tend to not check word length or determine how fleshed-out a character is. I am looking at how it fits into our lore or if there are claims of relationships to our game's established characters that have not been agreed on by the other roleplayers. Beyond that, we consider them a living document to be updated as needed and as things develop in-game.

 

I can say that I do not care for apps that want you to list likes, dislikes, favorite music, fill out an involved template with 10,000 character images, etc. However, if the site was very alluring and I liked the overall idea of it and joining, I will fill out their apps without complaint.

 

For sites with no app, I'll still write one out for my character and stick it somewhere because I have serious memory issues. If his or her looks vary from the playby's, I need to record it somewhere so that I can reference it.

 

Anyway, just my 2 cents on bios and why I like them and use them.

[Jaxx 317]

I like apps, always have. I think the majority of the rpc does as well, but the outliers always seem to be the loudest no matter the topic. Most of the arguments against them are ones that I don't understand, tbh, but overall people who are anti-app tend to also be ones that I don't get along with in general? So who knows. Maybe it's just a culture thing like preferring face claims. I like those too. 

 

I've joined a couple sites with no sort of application or approval process. They've always ended up having lots of people that want to try to sneak things past the admins, godmode, powerplay, write OP characters, and things like that. And to be honest, I'm kind of picky with the quality of my roleplay partners. No-app sites have also, in my experience, drawn in people that don't write at the level I want my partners to be on, and/or people who lie about their writing quality. So they've overall been a turn-off for me even though I've tried half a dozen or so over the years. Always had bad experiences so I ended up being drawn to other corners of the rp world. 

 

Anyway, apps. I don't care how in depth they are. Anything from "write a paragraph in this freeform area" to "write 300 words explaining whether your character prefers boxers or briefs and why" works for me. A lot of characters that I use are ones I've written for months or even years. So it's fun for me to think about new aspects of them that I might not have put down on paper before. And sometimes to change things up in their histories or likes/dislikes or whatever to make them a bit different and see how that changes things going forward. Or even, in some cases, completely rewrite their histories. I also find that it helps with plotting if I can look at an app and know that our characters have been in the same place at the same time, are in the same faction, have something in common in their pasts, have similar powers they can talk about, etc, etc. 

 

And to be honest, I straight up do not trust people to stay invested if they won't put effort into making an app. If you're complaining about how long and hard an app every process is, then there is absolutely nothing to make me think that you're going to like writing posts. Especially with how many sites out there require practically nothing on a character to be accepted besides the absolute basics of their past and personality (and powers where applicable). Plus if you join a site and you're whining about something that everyone else has done with no or few issues, you're just coming off as childish and wanting to get special exemptions imo 

 

As staff, I require apps for several different reasons. The major one is that I want to know that someone isn't going to start off by breaking lore or rules. When I run into that, I know they're not a good fit for the site because they literally haven't even spent fifteen minutes going over our required reading. I also want to know that, for canons, they're writing an app in accordance with how that character is portrayed in media. Freeform apps are a nice help for that because people can do anything. Interview, diary entry, oneshot, first person, whatever. And I want to have an idea of what the person's writing level is like. I don't have any labels like 'advanced' or 'literate' on my site, but if nobody can understand your writing, they won't thread with you, and I think there's some cases where it might be better for all involved to simply tell someone they won't be a fit for a site. 

Edited August 5, 2019 by Jaxx

[Yona Carlin 44]

Literally the only reason I choose to have apps on my site is because 1) the system is designed so that when you register the app is automatically connected to your account by way of character information and 2) to have an index of characters. A lot of people on my site just send in basically skeleton apps. Which is like name, gender, species, a random made-up name for parents, and like "stuff" for history, lol. I don't care, I don't even really judge apps or even read them all that closely, basically if everything in your app is factually correct you're totally fine. And people who get their facts wrong I accept anyway and just tell them to fix it up. Like, apps are stupid and I've always hated them so I really gutted our apps to just be like "appearance if you want, family, an overview, history" and that's it. And honestly I don't give a shit if you fill it out or not. 

[Elena 546]

On 8/5/2019 at 3:42 AM, PixieMegs said:

I use free-style apps because I don't expect my members to know everything about their character. I use them to get a feel for their writing style and as a means of introducing their character on site. I'm not overly picky by any means unless it's a major canon and then I am a bit more selective. But I feel like that's within my right as an admin. I've had people submit applications that are in the form of a letter or a diary entry. Those get accepted just as easily as someone who writes me a 10k word history. 

 

I love freestyle too, but not for character approval. As character extras, after approval, for further character development, in a subforum for character development, I would love reading them (and even doing them, if I have time). But for character approval I like a classical bio, for good structure, because then nobody misses the personality, appearance, history, family, weapons skills, etc.

 

23 hours ago, River said:

I'd also like to mention that, on the site I admin, we include the ability to do an application update if something significant happens IC that should be recorded, such as a notable character event, a change to a powerset, or even a reworking of their personality.

 

We also do periodical updates, according to the plot progress. 🙂

Edited August 5, 2019 by Elena

[Vellamo 74]

Even if the general consensus was very pro-applications or viewed applications positively, it could be that the same people are just harmlessly venting/commenting. It doesn't have to mean there's a shift away from applications.

 

But the argument/point for no applications has been around for years or at least, it returns cyclically. Sometimes it's because once one person vents then it creates an opening/gateway for more people with the same thoughts to step in and similarly vent. Especially in environments with an overall anti-no application point-of-view, it will spur a reactionary response in people who feel quieted. It may make them seem 'noisy', negative, or whatnot but it's really that when you're a smaller number in an overwhelmingly different majority, you're going to feel compelled to speak up or feel put on the defensive even more-so when there's misinformation or affecting biases. 

 

When it comes to complaints about applications (or anything for that matter: applications vs. no applications, word counts vs. no word counts, long posts vs. short posts, and so on), I feel like posts on directories should be exercised with caution and taken with a pinch of salt because generally speaking, these statements are usually based on preferences rather than fact (even if someone may state their preference as if it is a universal fact). And the reality really is that no applications are just as much a sound option as application and the points for no applications are as well-founded as the points for applications (so long as those points aren't founded on fallacies or preconceptions against it or worse, the people who enjoy either). 

 

Do you prefer to have an app before posting, if so, why? If you don't, also why?

 

If I had to choose, I prefer no applications but I'm not picky, I've been on sites with and without applications over the years and I haven't experienced any difference in quality of characters, players, or plots. I've have yet to find, however, a site that was operated like the Wild West or Dark Ages, so I've never understood the claims that no applications are unregulated with too many openings for abuse/problem players🤷‍♀️ Staff still monitor, just that the entrance/door (criteria for being able to join and write) is in a different place.

 

And most "no application" sites aren't without an "application". In that, most of the time, they have an application in some form (or the same/minimum information provided somewhere) with different methods of maintaining order. Sometimes, they have no formal approval process (with the staff still monitoring, either gleaning what's written or keeping an eye on ic posts) or the application is a biography that you can fill whenever you like. One site I am on falls under this as an "add as much as you want and you start posting as soon as you like." I haven't encountered a no application setting with 100% no biography or basic character information provided (i.e. with nothing for ooc reference and everything being completely revealed through ic/posts). 

 

Edited August 5, 2019 by Vellamo
Clarity

[Let-make-nice 39]

Chiming in!  

I don't think I would ever RP somewhere that doesn't have Apps, nor would I admin a place that doesn't have them.  

 

Apps, as I see them, are also a contract between the writer and the rest of the community, saying, this is what my character will bring to plot (physical power, brains, charisma, klutziness, name it) and it is also a way for us to make sure we don't have to deal with Sues/Stus and with lore-breaking characters.

 

I would much rather approve or fix assumptions in the app process than discover them during RP and have to deal with messy things like retcons, drama, and thread drops.  

An app can also act as a plotter, which is interesting in a setting where you have lots of players. It allows a player to showcase their character in an easily accessible location 

[Deep Sea 326]

My poison of choice is two apps. The first one is a general introduction to get into the RP group, it basically just asks for a writing sample and a few things like about how much/how often you like to post and what you're looking to get out of my RP.  The second one is the character sheet.

 

Appless, or as I know them, walk-in RPs are great. But apps are better when I've got a target audience.

[Kazetatsu 263]

I prefer optional apps on forums. I like to make minor characters and bring out whoever I need, so I find an application and approve process takes away from my flow. I prefer to not have staff vetting me for stuff most of the time cause I feel like I don't need them always watching my stuff. I can manage my own info in my own way and people can speak up if they have problems with my handling of my own ocs. I do however make bios for my ocs if I have the motivation and muse to do so, especially when I do not see it as a requirement, or if the oc is planned for long-term use on a site. it just makes sense for me to have something out there once my characters are settled. I just prefer to roleplay first.

however on my discord rp I do require a basic bio for the characters. this is not a vetting application that needs to be approved before play, but a way to make sure players know who plays who and can find the basics about the character if need be.

Edited August 5, 2019 by Kazetatsu

[Jaxx 317]

58 minutes ago, Deep Sea said:

My poison of choice is two apps. The first one is a general introduction to get into the RP group, it basically just asks for a writing sample and a few things like about how much/how often you like to post and what you're looking to get out of my RP.  The second one is the character sheet.

 

Appless, or as I know them, walk-in RPs are great. But apps are better when I've got a target audience.

 

I'm not familiar with what platform your rp is on or how it works, but I'm curious as to why you wouldn't have the first app as part of the second? Include the player information at the bottom of the character sheet?

[Deep Sea 326]

9 minutes ago, Jaxx said:

 

I'm not familiar with what platform your rp is on or how it works, but I'm curious as to why you wouldn't have the first app as part of the second? Include the player information at the bottom of the character sheet?

Post-by-post forum RPing! And the apps are separate because the first one is a private message that's basically a formal player-to-GM introduction - and also because I have never run an RP on its own forum. I've always been on single-thread RPs hosted by a larger site that's not story or setting specific. So, to me, there's no need to have a player info section at the bottom of the sheet because that's what the user profile on the forum is for.

 

You should have seen my face when I found out there were people who made an account for each character on their forum....

[Keaton 133]

17 minutes ago, Deep Sea said:

You should have seen my face when I found out there were people who made an account for each character on their forum....

 

LOL, we have to have account switchers just to manage them! 😄

[Gothic 307]

I am on the fence when it comes to applications. 

 

I like applications so long as they are concise and don't encourage large amounts of rambling.  From a member perspective, I end up getting tired doing long and apps that are too in depth. Or long to type out when I am still fleshing the character out.  From a staff perspective if they are too long, they are usually filled with filler, and it makes it harder to actually review the application. 

 

 I have seen trends of applications changing and slowly the removal of extras. Likes, dislikes, etc. I also like being able to make any edits later on and many members do at varying stages. There can also be variable ways of doing things like history. 

 

That being said, sometimes I want to just RP and flesh out the character as I go without being bogged down in the details. Although I tend to do that with 1x1 rps. 

[ArizonaRaspberry 35]

It really seems like an outlier, honestly. I tend to try and make a brand new character for sites, at least for the very first character, and an app helps me immensely as long as it isn't freeform or interview. Plus, as an admin, it's hard to know what you're getting into otherwise. I mean I know plenty of people who struggle with certain sections, but I've never met someone who sees no purpose in applications altogether ._.