The Unintentional Barriers We Make

[Mistress Of The Obvious 73]

With the thread about applications and seeing Morrigan’s rules guide again, I thought this would be a good topic. I’ve very slowly been building a site to address what I call “unintentional barriers to entry.”

 

Intentional or natural barriers to entry are things like having a realistic historical or heavy lore site. The information needed to explain the setting will put some people off (though beginners guides are meant to minimize this). That’s a natural barrier. For a site like this, an application process is typically used to make sure people read the needed information. That is an intentional barrier.

 

Unintentional barriers are typically what we see in rules like “+5/-5 character age” or “no duplicate first names.” These are things we just do often times because it seems standard. Another unintentional barrier maybe even having an application depending on the premise of the site.

 

I have other ideas of what I consider to be unintentional barriers, but I’m interested in seeing what all of you think of as ones since I might be missing some. I'm especially interested in barriers that aren't rules, since I think we're increasingly good at spotting them, but of course, you're free to add those too.

 

[Grimscythe 181]

When I look at a site, here's what turns me off from it:

• Applications 
  • Now, someone who has looked at a kiss of darkness is probably aware that we have an approval system for our characters, however this is not required to be filled out completely in order to play and use your character. We actually have it on approval solely for the purpose of skimming the application to make the character fit. Obviously, that's the whole purpose of applications, however strict applications are an entirely different demon to face. I absolutely loathe sites where I need to come up with a detailed history for a character before I even touch them. Sometimes, I've got a name, a home, and a look, and that's it for the first several days to months of playing the character. I prefer to fill in the biography as I figure it out, not to prep for being able to play a character whose history might warp and change.
• 3/3/3 Rated Sites, Strict Rules, and Censoring
  • It's amazing how some sites have rules that are extremely restricting in all regards, even down to what you can and cannot write/mention. Now, this isn't in regard to thread markings like [TW], [CW], etc. I fully believe in properly labeling threads as a warning to potential readers that "Hey, you might see something in this!" What I don't like is when a site censors with this rating--and it happens. I think if you're going to use that rating, you need to be prepared for your writers to actually use it. There are several 3/3/3 sites that should honestly be rated 2/2/2, if you catch my drift.
• Atmosphere
  • One of the largest barriers I've come across is the atmosphere perpetrated by players of a game. I typically hop in the discord for a bit while I look around (it takes me approximately a month read everything pertaining to character creation and decide whether or not I want to play). I will lurk in discords to get an idea of how the players of a certain site are. If they're friendly and encouraging and willing to plot with me, I'm usually do create a character to play. However, many times I find that when it comes to discussing creating a character, members of the site go quiet. There is a lack of interest in RPing with a new person and ultimately, I leave the discord and choose not to play on said site.
  • This also applies to things such as loss of interest/lack of priority. I am a slow poster. I post 1-2 times a day, sometimes more. It really, truly depends on my mood (I am chronically ill). I've been in places where someone wanted to RP with me and ultimately were not interested so they pushed our rp to the back of their priorities, i.e., they are rapid-fire posting, but not responding to our rp.
• Unwelcoming
  • The biggest barrier I've encountered when joining new sites is a lack of welcome. I put that in bold because it's extremely important for the growth of a new site. Whenever someone joins my site or discord, I try to acknowledge them asap. I ask them what they like to write, what sort of character they are thinking about, etc. I hit on this in the last bullet, but this is where the encouragement comes in.

[Huskerdust 625]

Oh man, to the 3/3/3 one, I feel that one for certain. I joined a site that called itself that but it actually had restrictions on sex. So to me, then the sexual rating shouldn't have been 3. Why bother even using that rating system if you're going to ignore what it means? Honestly, given what they expected (fade to black) for sex scenes, it should have been rated a 1 on the rpg rating scale. Don't lie to people about your rating. That's shifty as hell. And a definite unintentional barrier, I would say. 

 

Discord is also an unintentional barrier? I mean, most people have it because they either like it or they feel like it's a necessity on RP sites these days. But then there are sites where you're required to be on discord or there's an unspoken sort of culture around being on discord. Most sites apparently do most of their plotting via discord. Not being a fan of having to sign up for yet another thing and being at random people's beck and call doesn't jive with my social anxiety. So when I see that discord is required or there is that unspoken feel for being on it, that, to me, is yet another barrier. 

[Muse 121]

I admit that my own forum is basically my comfy home writing nest and every time I try to stray from it, even just out of genuine curiosity, I usually have regrets. Sometimes, I attempt to write somewhere else for several months just to experience a different genre or explore other worlds. Sometimes, I don't even make it to the character creation stage. From these varied escapades into other forums, I will admit that my commentary on what I've found to be unintentional barriers to my becoming a part of a new writing community are somewhat similar to what's already been mentioned above, though some of these I'm not sure are always as actually unintentional as they seem, which is too bad. 

 

1. Ageism. I'm an older role-player—I've been writing stories, playing pretend, and rolling dice on a tabletop since before the internet even existed. I know, it's kind of crazy for folks who can't imagine, but, well, that doesn't mean I'm creepy and wanna be perv around a bunch of teens. It probably means I've got some good advice and a minivan and that's about it. I'm over 35, a mother of four, a spouse, and a creative director full-time. Writing is my hobby, my safe place, and has been a big part of my sanity for as long as I can literally remember, but when I visit a new place and people tell me things like "oh, our younger (18+) players may not want to write with you" or "oh what a milf" (these are actual conversations I've had, by the way) or folks just generally grow eerily quiet/stop engaging with me at all because I let it slip that I have kids in grade school, well, that's a pretty high barrier to get over.  I've watched new, obviously younger players get snatched up into plots while I've been systematically ignored.   I guess I'll crawl back to my PBEM, huh?

 

2. Atmosphere. Much like Grimscythe, the way a Discord chat feels sets the tone for RP, ultimately, and if there's an attitude of unwelcome, then it's just no fun to stick around. Along with this, if there aren't any openings for new players, if there's no one welcoming folks with opportunities to post, if every event is closed (or, worse, there are no events to participate in), then this sort of ties into the atmosphere and creates a barrier to participation that is difficult to overcome, even if I consider myself an easily excitable person who is always brimming with ideas! 

 

3. Activity. I'm a busy human. I wear a lot of hats. My time to write is a narrow sliver of precious moonlight that I guard preciously with all my might and it means a lot to me to make time for someone else and offer to write with them. I can't always promise to post once a day, let alone regularly in a week. I'm not a fan of activity checks or requirements, but I'm also usually turned off by posting so rapid that I get left behind in the dust. If no one is willing to be flexible, even if it is unintentional, it tends to turn me off. A sub-point here is if staff is needed to progress storylines or approve progress but they're not around, this makes character development and plot interaction very difficult. 

 

4. Lack of definite world-building. Now, I know there's folks out there who love a good sandbox, who love the opportunity to dig in and build into a place, and I suppose since I run my own original fantasy, I'm rather spent in that department. I like lots of rich lore and I know I'm crazy for this preference. This barrier is perhaps the most subjective because I have always struggled with participating in a forum when the world feels ambiguous and lacks definition. If I don't know how far it is between city A and city B or when I don't know how Kingdom A feels about Kingdom D because it's never been written before, then I find myself feeling sort of like a jellyfish, floating along with nowhere to go. Clearly, that's not a problem for everyone, and I can accept that as my own preference. 

[Grimscythe 181]

@MuseYES YES YES on the ageism. I've seen it too, and actually had to bite my tongue on Reddit for that reason (player refused RPers that were female and men over 40).  The fact you've experienced this makes me sooo angry. 

[Magali 16]

1 hour ago, Muse said:

1. Ageism. I'm an older role-player—I've been writing stories, playing pretend, and rolling dice on a tabletop since before the internet even existed. I know, it's kind of crazy for folks who can't imagine, but, well, that doesn't mean I'm creepy and wanna be perv around a bunch of teens. It probably means I've got some good advice and a minivan and that's about it. I'm over 35, a mother of four, a spouse, and a creative director full-time. Writing is my hobby, my safe place, and has been a big part of my sanity for as long as I can literally remember, but when I visit a new place and people tell me things like "oh, our younger (18+) players may not want to write with you" or "oh what a milf" (these are actual conversations I've had, by the way) or folks just generally grow eerily quiet/stop engaging with me at all because I let it slip that I have kids in grade school, well, that's a pretty high barrier to get over.  I've watched new, obviously younger players get snatched up into plots while I've been systematically ignored.   I guess I'll crawl back to my PBEM, huh?

 

I'm sitting here on the other end of the spectrum, been 18 for less than a year and what I've most encountered were people who refused to plot and thread with me because the mere thought of talking to me made them unconfortable. Nevermind I consider myself a rather talented writer (for somebody who has English as her second language, that is), and I am self-confident enough that besides getting sad there are people who refuse to plot with me, I'm more sad for them for losing the opportunity. Anyways, I just wanted to say I'm sorry you have gone through this. One of my favorite writers in the whole world, whom I've written with for a year (even before I was 18) must be 36-years-old now, and her age or my age had nothing to do with how well we hit it off/how well we thought of each other's writing.

 

Age shouldn't have a play in how we decide things, RP-wise. Sure, there's the matter of 3/3/3 and minors, but as far as plotting goes when you're both adults? Then I'm just rolling my eyes at all the ageism. It feels so unnecessary. 

[Muse 121]

10 hours ago, Magali said:

Age shouldn't have a play in how we decide things, RP-wise. Sure, there's the matter of 3/3/3 and minors, but as far as plotting goes when you're both adults? Then I'm just rolling my eyes at all the ageism. It feels so unnecessary. 

 

This! I can understand the perspective sometimes from both sides—I can!—but also, yes. I have not always run an 18+ 3/3/3 forum and I have written with folks far younger than me for your exact reasons: there are some brilliant writers out there! Why miss out? ❤️My friends in the real world are not all my age; I have older friends and younger friends and all of these different perspectives are, in my opinion, enriching and important when building a community. It's no different in writing. 

[Magali 16]

7 minutes ago, Muse said:

 

This! I can understand the perspective sometimes from both sides—I can!—but also, yes. I have not always run an 18+ 3/3/3 forum and I have written with folks far younger than me for your exact reasons: there are some brilliant writers out there! Why miss out? ❤️My friends in the real world are not all my age; I have older friends and younger friends and all of these different perspectives are, in my opinion, enriching and important when building a community. It's no different in writing. 

 

I wish more people thought the way you do. You wouldn't believe the amount of messages I received containing something in the likes of "I'm sorry I held from writing with you for so long! It's been great/Your writing is great/etc". I lose too because some of these people are/were amazing writers, and we both ended up losing due to age-related fears. At the end of the day, it's as you said, those are different perspectives that can be very enriching; but they shouldn't mean one perspective is lesser or better than others. 

 

Also, to contribute with the topic:

 

Some of my turn-offs are:

 

1. Application

As stated here, I've come to enjoy too-long applications less and less over the years. Don't get me wrong, I have apps that reach 5k in amount of words, and a lot of the times I lose track of how much I've written with my characters. But this happens when I have the freedom to write their bio as I'd like - usually because it's freeform. I hate having to fill all those likes, dislikes, interests, traits, etc..... because a lot of these I'm either supposed to figure out as I go, or I know 2 or 3 and not like 5 or 7 as requested. 

 

Also, it's so much easier when there are less spots to fill! Even if I end up filling them with a bunch of content/words, just going through lesser spots makes things far faster and better looking.

 

2. Unwelcoming

 

Pretty much the same as stated a few posts above my reply. Look, part of the reason why I'm in RP is to make friends. Sure, a lot of people tend to separate things, but I don't, and I hate it when I get to a site and the atmosphere is strictly plotting, if that. I love discords/c-boxes that are buzzing, people that PM or DM each other, I love feeling like I belong in an RP as opposed to being an outsider or that people aren't really communicating each other. Being part of a community, to me, is just as important as writing - otherwise I'd take myself to a fanfiction site and find happiness there.

 

3. Extensive lore

 

I'll keep this simple - if I have to read over four thousand words of lore, I'm probably not joining your site. I'm all for 'extras' and bullet points, but when you give me all that content as standard reading? Please, don't. I've seen RPs that had its entire lore as something RPers should read (from the start) and if you were to make questions, people would sneer, make sarcastic comments, or otherwise be like "it's there! go read". I've also seen RPs that you could focus on your character-related lore at first and they had this kind of immersive-period, for you to learn and read everything over time. Needless to say, the second works far better for me. 

[ThriftStoreTeeth 78]

RE: The ageism thing. I can completely agree. Even though I'm 27 and seemingly right in line age-wise with a lot of the RP forums I've seen, I've seen (and even dealt with) it more than I'd like to. Whether its directed at me, or anyone else, its an instant turn-off.

 

As for my own contribution to the thread, they both seem to go hand-in-hand, but I'll break them up as two separate issues for sake of discussion. Yes, I'm aware that they're kind of similar to what's already been said, but the reasons are different for me.

1. Accessibility. This can range from a confusing layout/subforum organization to massively brain-melting 3,000 word paragraphs that are so dense with details they could sink the Titanic all over again. Organize things. Break up your paragraphs in to manageable chunks. Use subheadings. Format your paragraphs/pages in a funnel style with the most important, largest ideas at the top and getting more detailed as you go down the page.
    
2. Rude staff/members. Blame it on being autistic, or just plain not getting it on occasion, sometimes that big ol' lore page didn't sink in for whatever reason. Okay, no big deal. Just hop into the Discord, or find someone to ask about it, right? Yeah, its not helpful when people just respond with "its over here lol" and throw the same link at me that I've been trying to riddle my way through for the last 4 hours. I can understand that usually that's enough for most people, but when I'm prefacing exactly what I'm not understanding, and why, it becomes incredibly frustrating, especially if I'm explicitly asking for a paraphrase of what was said because I'm not getting it in the format it was originally presented to me, and I don't want to just guess.

[Flahme 44]

Great discussion so far, and it is something I am trying to be very aware of, especially since this is my first RP site I've ever set up. In addition to that I have only been on one other RP site which, I am starting to realise, may not have been the best introduction to the genre.

 

I admit to changing a few guidelines on my site since joining here, and using the suggestions and discussions as a way of throwing light on some aspects of what I'm building. I feel it has helped a lot, so thank you all. 

 

Looking at other sites long before I started mine I noted some things I felt are barriers for me and worked not to have in my own place. Yet, I am sure I still have things that would be unintentional barriers to others.  Definitely, as noted above, long applications and accessibility are a barrier. I won't reiterate those. The only one that has stuck out to me most, since I haven't actively joined any other RP sites yet is noted below.

 

Being Too Prescriptive. I can understand how this comes about, but it is unlikely to be something that draws me in. If my angel, vampire, werewolf must adhere to a set of guidelines in how it came to be or what it's weaknesses/strengths are I will feel stifled creatively. I know some people really want all those guidelines and that is great if it works for you, or perhaps it has to be that way to fit the lore. I just want to be able to write my characters my way.

 

The age thing is really interesting too. I am an older player and often fear if people know my age they won't want to write with me. I've gotten better at not worrying about this and my main writing partner is actually half my age yet it doesn't seem to matter. Our characters just fit so well and we meshed ICly so well from the get go.