Does every ban require an explanation?

[Anonymous 233]

The long story short of the situation is that this member had been a constant thorn in our side, passive aggressiveness, stressing out other players, and a whole list of things which I won't go into massively, but know that it was stressful for all involved. 

 

They left the site before I could get a chance to do it, and when they did, I banned their account (after speaking to my staff team). I haven't messaged them about it, or gave an explanation afterwards and I don't feel guilty about doing it and it won't change the ban. 

 

What I'm asking is should I feel bad for not explaining? When someone has caused so much stress to me and my site do they need an explanation for why they get banned? Have you done this before?

Anonymous poster hash: f6113...d56

[Morrigan 1,822]

The plain and simple fact is, no, you don't have to explain a ban. A ban is implemented for unrecoverable members. There is also no reason for you to feel bad. You did it for the health of your site.

[Somniac 206]

I'd feel weird not giving an explanation these days, personally.

 

In my younger days, I did ban without explanation because I wasn't very good at dealing with people. I assumed that if it was obvious enough for me to catch, then they knew what they were doing and would be remorseless anyway. Usually, these things had to do with mechanical exploitations in a game that left admin-visible trails.

 

I was justified, and that was enough for me at the time.

 

Not proud of that. At the end of the day, these are games and people looking to unwind in ways that may not be mutually compatible. I'd rather deal with something respectfully and risk wrongly assuming the best of someone rather than running the opposite risk of wrongly assuming the worst. If nothing else - for the sake of the people effected by that person's removal. A wordless ban looks petty, and puts innocent people on edge.

[Morrigan 1,822]

39 minutes ago, Somniac said:

A wordless ban looks petty, and puts innocent people on edge.

Not gonna lie ,I guess I don't understand this. I think its more petty to air people's dirty laundry by telling everyone else why someone is banned. Its a lack of privacy and more.

 

Additionally, if I understand OP correctly, this is about telling the member that was banned, not their community.

[Somniac 206]

13 hours ago, Morrigan said:

Not gonna lie ,I guess I don't understand this. I think its more petty to air people's dirty laundry by telling everyone else why someone is banned. Its a lack of privacy and more.

 

Additionally, if I understand OP correctly, this is about telling the member that was banned, not their community.

Not as in shouting it to the winds, but an explanation to the banned member.

 

Otherwise, I find what happens is they air it by asking everyone and their mother to ask why they got banned. An explanation nips that in the bud by 1. giving them an explanation so that they have that closure, and 2. necessitating a lie on their behalf to maintain innocence/ignorance in order to stir more drama, which is typically a bridge too far for most of us. If they disagree with the decision - so be it, and I hope they build a community that functions the way they would hope to see.

 

People talk. And even if they don't - I'd still want to have the confidence of knowing I did everything within my own power to make a situation right by my standards. I know I'd want an explanation if it were me.

 

That said: most roleplayers hate confrontation on either side of it (which my methods aren't  great for), and so the ban-and-wash-your-hands approach is more one-size-fits-most.

[dusk 106]

I think if they've already left the site of their own accord, there is no reason to send them a message *now* telling them why they are banned. Let them find out if they try to come back. Otherwise its kind of like chasing drama. They left, you made it so they can't return, if they should, that is an issue for future you.

 

And if they have been this big of a PITA your other members understand and don't need a run down either.

 

If they were still active, then yes, I think an explanation is appropriate, but an explanation, and not a discussion.

[Morrigan 1,822]

13 hours ago, Somniac said:

Not as in shouting it to the winds, but an explanation to the banned member.

 

Otherwise, I find what happens is they air it by asking everyone and their mother to ask why they got banned. An explanation nips that in the bud by 1. giving them an explanation so that they have that closure, and 2. necessitating a lie on their behalf to maintain innocence/ignorance in order to stir more drama, which is typically a bridge too far for most of us. If they disagree with the decision - so be it, and I hope they build a community that functions the way they would hope to see.

 

People talk. And even if they don't - I'd still want to have the confidence of knowing I did everything within my own power to make a situation right by my standards. I know I'd want an explanation if it were me.

 

That said: most roleplayers hate confrontation on either side of it (which my methods aren't  great for), and so the ban-and-wash-your-hands approach is more one-size-fits-most.

 

I don't hate confrontation but I also don't need to explain every action that I take to protect my community. If I ban a psycho that is also pretending to be their own mom and claiming disabilities are their reason why they are being "crazy" (real scenario btw) I don't have to explain to them or ANYONE in my community that I banned them. I banned them because they didn't follow my code of conduct. End of story.

[Renya 55]

1. No, you shouldn't feel bad or guilty. 

Ultimately, you made a decision, not independently either (as you mentioned a discussion with your fellow team members), and it's one that was done for the best. Is it a shame it was necessary? Yes, but sometimes people impose these outcomes on themselves. 

 

2. If you had actually banned before they took it upon themselves to leave, then yes, a statement explaining might have been appropriate but afterwards and based on their own actions, then no.

Telling them that you are banning them for rule breaking or X, Y, Z (as it sounds like you've had the run around a bit with this person) is perfectly fine. It won't change anything for them but at least they know why you felt it was necessary in the first place. However... realistically, they should have known already because it's actually their own behaviour that you are commenting on. 

 

One note regarding banning; I tend to remove anyone I've had to ban after 6 months to a year, this is for two reasons, I like to think people can grow and change but also that by then they should have moved on. So, why shouldn't I as well? I don't find it's helpful to linger on negativity or anything like that. 

 

At the end of the day, this is something you made, they agreed to abide by the rules you put in place and frankly it's also supposed to be fun. Yes, there will always be those who take some kind of enjoyment in this kind of behaviour and as admins/staff we all have to meet a few of them. Sometimes it is also just that the person doesn't fit and it's not bad that it is the case, there are plenty of other sites and people might fit somewhere else - which btw doesn't make your site or you a failure, not everything will fit for everyone - so, try and remember you are just a person doing the best you can. 

 

Don't worry, or at least don't panic. 

 

Nothing you've said sounds like you did something wrong and I don't think you need to change for the future if this specific situation happens again. Other than that... you got this! 

[Huskerdust 625]

No.  That’s it. 
Not everything needs to be given explanation.

[DivineRabbit 64]

I agree with not explaining a thing. To be honest I have found that often - later after the ban- that this person was a thorn for others. So to me why tell you you are an ass hat-you have to know that- thus BANNED.

 

But that is just my thought

[Miss Bunny 6]

Something like this happened to me today! A member exploded due to being asked (nicely I might add) to follow a rule of the site that they had blatantly ignored. Long story short, they left the site and discord, so I banned their account. I didn't contact them as to why, I don't think it's needed. They know what the reason was, even if they don't want to admit it. I wouldn't feel bad for protecting your other members from one bad apple.

[Prophetess 137]

If they have left as has been said, then no. No explanation is needed. That's just seeking out trouble for the sake of it. It's highly unlikely they will be back, but the ban adds that level of protection to you and your members on the off chance they do return. I agree with some others here that when banning someone there doesn't always need to be an explanation for reasoning. As to what was said about people changing, yes sometimes they do and not always for the better. A ban is only as permanent as the Admin wants it to be. We can remove bans just as easily as putting them in place. Sometimes it's long enough for someone to get the point, others it's there forever. I don't think we need to waste energy explaining something to someone who isn't really going to care either way. 

[korini 3]

It's been a long time since I had to ban anyone, so I guess I've been lucky this hasn't come up a lot for me (can count on one hand how many times I've banned). But I agree with some of the comments above. They already left, so no message is needed. Messaging them is going to start a conversation / argument about who is right, wrong etc. If they were still actively playing, a simple message would be in store I feel. Even if it's "You violated our conduct rules" or "I don't feel like we're a good match for each other." and then drop it. Don't argue, move on and ghost them. 

 

 

[NyxDarklore 92]

On 11/6/2020 at 3:28 PM, Morrigan said:

Not gonna lie ,I guess I don't understand this. I think its more petty to air people's dirty laundry by telling everyone else why someone is banned. Its a lack of privacy and more.

 

Additionally, if I understand OP correctly, this is about telling the member that was banned, not their community.

 

While I agree that it does look more petty airing people's dirty laundry, I do think that offering a private explanation to a member is a good idea unless they are 100% unreachable (which looks like it's what the person intended based on a follow up response) and it's just not worth the hassle. Basically, I'm in the position of "ban if necessary, offer an explanation if simple, otherwise just let it go". If, as in your follow up post, you're dealing with a psycho (I have heard of situations like the one you described only it was someone pretending to be their own mother to explain said person was dead - I wish I was joking) then that falls into the "just let it go" category because it's not simple to offer an explanation and often just not worth it.

[CovertSphinx 710]

If I'm banning an active member, I usually give a quick summary privately to them as a "for your info" on a platform where they may receive the message but not necessarily respond.

"Because of XYZ and the general toxicity involved you are being banned after multiple reminders." generally suffices as a layout.

 

But somebody that left on their own accord? F*ck that, they can take that "I'm Leaving / I'm Back" drama somewhere else. They aren't owed any explanation until they message you on some outside platform saying "Hey, so, I calmed down and wanted to come back but I'm apparently Banned......"