Known Offenders

[Anonymous 234]

When a known offender joins your site's server, and is looking to join your site, what should you do? Give them the benefit of the doubt,  or get rid of them? And if it's the latter, are they owed an explaination?

 

The person in question I have had trouble with before. Not with them personally, but with other people who aggressively witch hunt this person and tell you to remove them or you'll be labelled with the same brush as them and flamed all over a server they have all about this roleplayer.

 

They allegedly are known for jocking bios, characters, and entire site ideas and skins.  (Funny enough the first thing they've said in the server is about the skin- but that's a pretty general comment for someone to make, so I don't know).

 

Help! I don't know what to do.

Especially as they've done nothing wrong to me or my site.  But I don't really want the hassle from other people for having them around either.

Anonymous poster hash: 0b6d7...2e9

[Polkadot 0]

Honestly everybody should be given a fair chance. I am not a huge fan of all the witch hunting that has been happening around social media. Sure even if I have negative run-ins with the person I won't completely ban them. I just won't RP with them. If they're willing to stay civil to me and obey the rules and regs then they're allowed on. If they aren't then they're not allowed on. Simple as that.

[Morrigan 1,826]

From personal experience here on the initiative the top thing I can provide is that you need to make a decision for yourself. It doesn’t sound like you’re comfortable with this person which means that no matter what you do they are never going to be treated normally so why are you going to put them through this crap? It actually doesn’t sound like you should be questioning keeping this person on your site but why they are still considering your site safe when you obviously aren’t going to provide that sort of space.

 

As a person that actually listens to all sides of arguments and makes a decision like a Judge....

 

 

I’d be extremely skeptical about this obscure general consensus about someone. More so that it’s been longstanding and the reasons appear obscure. I’ve known murderers that get lighter sentences than some RPers sometimes.

[Anonymous 234]

Oh I agree entirely with giving people a fair chance.  No-one made me judge, jury and executioner.

It's the tenacious witch hunting of this particular person that concerns me most.  And the subsequent bullying of sites that allow them to be a member, and passive aggression directed at them, which I have witnessed first hand.  The people actually hounding this person are the problem. And I do not agree with their behaviour towards this individual at all. Even if they have stolen a character bio from them in the past - which there is proof of. 

 

Just block them from their own sites is my belief. It is not fair to force people's hand or put them in uncomfortable situations just for having someone on their board. 

 

But does protecting everyone and the site as a whole from the petty attacks from people who do not like one person, outweigh giving a chance to that one person?

 

A safe space for our actual and loyal members is most important.

Anonymous poster hash: 0b6d7...2e9

[Arceus 1,082]

Yeah, sounds like you do need to be blocking someone, just not this person. So, why are you giving these people a platform to bully someone like this and get away with it? This is some straight up ninth grade bs and we don't enable this crap. We don't punish someone for the actions of someone else.

 

If I was on your site, and I saw and knew you did sthn like this, I would be straight up gone af. I have stalkers. I have ppl that don't like me. I can't control them, I can only control me, and if you're going to judge me on the behavior of someone else, you don't deserve me. If you do it to one person, you're likely going to do it to someone else and I'm not with that.

 

Yes, your players and their safe space to rp are important. But guess what, the moment this person joined, they became one of your players. They deserve a safe space where they can enjoy a site too. If they do the same thing they're accused of doing, deal with it then. It's possible they don't know it's bad or why. But this? This is just...

 

I also don't block people on other people's experiences. I may block someone across all the sites I run for five years, but it'll be bc of a serious infraction in my presence.

 

P.S. bad pr is still pr. And I say this as an admin that's had to weather a site being attacked before.

[DivineRabbit 64]

I have to agree with Arceus- being an Admin myself and having had our staff weather some next level shit. So I cannot add more than already stated.  I do think people deserve a chance. 

 

BUT.

 

As admin we ( meaning my crew ) are the monitors of the play ground- we do have some responsibility to our die hard writers and friends not to have them subject to something they are not involved in or care about. It is hard to weigh the good and bad- but I would err on protecting my crew.

[Mistress Of The Obvious 73]

I have a crazy thought: why don’t have a nice chat with the new accused member?

 

Your whole dilemma is that you aren’t sure if member X (we’ll go ahead and call them that) has turned over a new leaf or not and that you expect harassers in your discord and on rp resource forums. The best way to know if member X is worth your time is to talk to them.

 

Personally, since I have a lawful good paladin mentality, I would let member X know that I know about all the awful harassment I’ve seen directed to them, that I believe in giving people another chance (it’s okay to admit a little nervousness because of their past here), then I would close it with asking for the discord names of any harasser so I could keep them safe (don’t mention the site and other members - keep it solely on member X).

 

People tend to open up if they think you’re protecting them. You’ll learn more about the situation at hand. If member X was thinking of causing harm to your site, they’ll likely rethink it. You’ll have already protected your members by blocking some of those harassers before they came to your site.

 

The big thing I notice from your posts, Anonymous, is avoidance of momentary discomfort and conflict. This is dirt common in the rp world and can cause a lot more conflict and hardship by desperately trying to avoid it. Remember you’re the leader of a respected site. You’re talking to a brand new member with a poor reputation. They’re scared of you. There’s no reason to fear having a conversation with them and throwing them some generosity.

Edited March 25, 2021 by Mistress Of The Obvious

[Detrimentum 2]

I say give them a chance but if they do something that makes you uncomfortable, trust your gut! Don't let your kind nature get the best of you every time. 

[MegHanSolo 13]

A lot of people here are, in my opinion, saying exactly what you should be doing.

I can't stress how much you should over communicate with your members who are concerned. Acknowledge their concerns, and say you'll observe - and record - any evidence you learn of, but also explain that it's irresponsible to exact punishment on someone entering a community for the first time without evidence that they've done wrong. Communicate with your team! Make sure everyone is on the same page, and then just wait, play and write as usual, and keep an eye out (both for potential signs that have been noted, but also making sure no concerned members take things into their own hands!). There's always several sides to a story - and yes, sometimes someone is clearly guilty of bad behavior - but it's never a good idea to jump to conclusions until you and your team have observed enough to properly assess and react to a situation in an educated and prepared manner. 

[NyxDarklore 92]

The first question you have to ask yourself is this: do you have proof? It's one thing to know that someone does something, one thing to "know", and another entirely to have evidence that they have done it. The fact that you use the phrase they allegedly are known for... in your post suggests that you do not know for sure. You also note that they have not done anything wrong to you or your site.

 

Only you can decide what you are willing to put up with, but maybe try talking to them (as was mentioned earlier in this thread) and getting their side of the story for one (as they say, there are three sides to every story). It also doesn't hurt to communicate with the members who are expressing concerns and to get information from them as well. I don't think you should outright deny this person, but I do think you should be alert and cautious.

Edited April 3, 2021 by BlackPhoenix

[Deacon Frost 196]

I think a lot of what I've thought to say has been said. 

 

I can't deny there are some people that I've seen enter a board, recognized and gone to my fellow admin with a "This person was trouble on X board when I was there, we should watch out for them."  But we never banned them off the cuff unless we had some definitive stuff to go off of as a reason. 

 

The other thing though; is it sounds like you've got an RP lynch mob threatening to burn your board down if you don't give in to their shit; and that sets my back up as an Admin. In my experience people like that act friendly until they get told no, then they reveal they're toxic as hell. Pretty easy to get on the wrong side of a crowd like that. 

[Keaton 133]

On 3/23/2021 at 2:18 AM, Anonymous said:

The person in question I have had trouble with before. Not with them personally, but with other people who aggressively witch hunt this person and tell you to remove them or you'll be labelled with the same brush as them and flamed all over a server they have all about this roleplayer.

 

Ugh, god. I'm sorry you're having to deal with this.

So, I switched to forum RP a couple years ago. I'd been at Dreamwidth since they launched the site and had been happy there a long time, but within the space of about two years, the RP community there went from being fun and comfortable to being massively toxic. The thing that changed? Players started collectively using a social media network (in this case, Plurk) to talk about RP. It fostered gossip, which fed the wank communities, which then blew up much bigger than they'd ever been, and encouraged people to basically be their worst selves 24/7. The bullies now rule the roost, and it's just so, so sad. I realized that the culture was influencing me and turning me into someone I really didn't like, so I bounced.

And I genuinely don't mean to proselytize, but my advice is to always approach mixing RP and shared/public social media with extreme wariness. It brings out the worst in people. And as has been said, you don't need to give that foolishness any oxygen if you can avoid it. It makes the opinions of a few random people seem way outsized when really what they think has no bearing on your life or your game. There's ALWAYS another place to find players.

HOWEVER, you really do have to decide for yourself whether this person is a good fit for your game and the culture you're trying to foster. Set aside the gossip and focus strictly on what you know, and then put it into the broader context. We know there was provable plagiarism — How long ago was it? People do learn and change. The suggestion to talk to the person is I think the best advice. Maybe take the time beforehand to write up a list of concerns you have — What do you want to find out in the course of the conversation? What do you need to be convinced of? Do you have any hard no's? Make notes as you go, and make sure you can save the conversation. Take a day or two to distance yourself from it, and then come back and review it all again and see how you feel. And then, if you decide to allow the person to join, privately lay out for them a set of clear rules for their behavior and let them know that if they violate any of them, they're out, no appeals.

I wouldn't advise making, like, an announcement post about any of this; that just comes off wanky and sets the person apart. But you can invite folks to talk to you about concerns, as has also been wisely suggested, and explain to them the steps you're taking so they feel more secure. That can also help nip any gossip in the bud.

 

But always, always remember it's OK to say no if you're just not comfortable for any reason, because it's YOUR game.

[reuwille 4]

It all depends on the severity of the offense. As someone who has had characters plagiarized from them — it hurts, but it shouldn't be the reason someone gets exiled from RP as a whole if it only happened once. A lot of the time, the people who do it are very young and haven't yet learned the line between inspiration and straight up ripping, or they're new writers who got excited by an idea they saw. Sometimes it's malicious — but without evidence that it's a pattern, everyone deserves a second chance.

 

That doesn't extend to the people they stole from: those people are allowed to never forgive the offense. However, harassment is also a giant red flag — a bigger one than plagiarism, I'd say.

[DivineRabbit 64]

On 3/23/2021 at 4:18 AM, Anonymous said:

When a known offender joins your site's server, and is looking to join your site, what should you do? Give them the benefit of the doubt,  or get rid of them? And if it's the latter, are they owed an explaination?

 

The person in question I have had trouble with before. Not with them personally, but with other people who aggressively witch hunt this person and tell you to remove them or you'll be labelled with the same brush as them and flamed all over a server they have all about this roleplayer.

 

They allegedly are known for jocking bios, characters, and entire site ideas and skins.  (Funny enough the first thing they've said in the server is about the skin- but that's a pretty general comment for someone to make, so I don't know).

 

Help! I don't know what to do.

Especially as they've done nothing wrong to me or my site.  But I don't really want the hassle from other people for having them around either.

Anonymous poster hash: 0b6d7...2e9

 

 

 

Okay, I think everyone here has said what I would. I just wanted to add that I am a firm believer in giving people chances- No way to really know the whole story UNLESS : my best example is a fellow we had last year. He likes to role play BDSM ( which is fine) 1. He knew nothing about it - wrote more like domestic abuse things which was creepy- but okay- However he was in DMS sexually harrassing typists. ( Discord is not the place for your dick pics) My typists screen shot everything and then brought it to the staff.  This is evidence of a behavior, in this case would I share that forewarning with fellow admins on sister sites?  YUP.

 

I cannot unsee the screen shot....just...I felt so bad...I wanted to buy him an extender!

[psychodrow 10]

My experience is this:

If you don't witness or personally know of someone doing wrong-doing from a first-person basis, it isn't fair to judge other people by hearsay/past behaviors. People can always change - and if we judged YOU (or ourselves) by our past behaviors? Nothing good and no change would come around, for any of us.

 

That being said, when it comes to protecting the intellectual and emotional property of you and your players, it is a million percent ok to have a no tolerance policy in place, and to defend everyone and everything that is part of your domain of responsibility (aka, the world-building your players trust your site with).

 

Don't be afraid to get dirty, don't be afraid to be protective, and don't be afraid to be completely transparent with this person - because they aren't going to know YOU know unless you say something? And they certainly won't know that they are getting a chance to do the right thing - and no other chances - if you don't tell them that.

 

You have a responsibility to everyone here to be fair - and unafraid. Fear doesn't have any place around you or your players, and if it exists, then there is a responsibility to eliminate the source of that fear, definitively, and with precision. AND while communicating clearly on what it was that happened, and why (not necessarily in a PUBLIC sense? but always in a personal and direct sense).