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Where have all the word counts gone?


Morrigan
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3 hours ago, Hannable said:


This is largely how I feel.

 

If someone else’s post length puts an implied pressure on an individual (in spite of there being no word counts and posts of all lengths are welcome), I am not completely sure how that is a site’s responsibility to manage. 
 

Most of my members tend to be a little wordy, but they write that way because they want to. They enjoy it. I have no rule in place demanding a certain length.  And those who write shorter posts on our site are no different.

 

It is just so far beyond our radar we don’t really stop to think about it.  
 

If is important to a member we encourage them to communicate with those they write with. 

 

This isn't necessarily about your community though. This is just a general "communities at large" thing. I've visited and asked my fair share of communities before I even posted this. Hell I've been removed out of discords because I say "I see, that's not what the rules say but I totally understand, let me think about it". A community that truly has the expectation makes sense to me. If I write one word or a thousand, that is my choice in a truly no word count community.

 

My point, and what I'm trying to express here, is that communities that DO have an expectation have also put themselves into the "no word count" or "no minimum" category which is deceptive. As it stands most communities have taken on the "no word count" mantra but many still have a minimum expectation that they do not express until you either ask or try to participate and find out that what you've done isn't good enough.

 

So my question still stands, why have communities like this started to claim no word count even though they have a word count or at minimum an expectation?

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So, if I'm reading this correctly, your problem is not with communities who legitimately have zero fucks to give about 0+ words, but communities that say they do yet practice something different.

 

You ask some about this, and they boot you.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong - you've found your solution, have you not? You ask for clarification, and they give you the boot instead. That's on them, and they could spare everyone involved some disappointment by being more up front about their expectations.

 

As for why they do this - sounds like they're casting a wider net in hopes of sorting out the select fish they want afterwards.

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This I 💯 loathe. Outside of vetting and asking, I don’t know what else to suggest. Unless there was a list that could be created. And let’s face it, you can probably ask some sites and they will still insist they are “no word count” even when they really aren’t. It sucks finding out after the fact because you’ve invested time in joining.

 

I believe this comes from “no word count” being a HOT label for a site. A fad. It’s the new cool thing to label your site as to attract attention. Same thing is done with “LGBTQ+ friendly”. It’s actively exploited.

On 7/23/2022 at 6:46 PM, Morrigan said:

 

This isn't necessarily about your community though. This is just a general "communities at large" thing. I've visited and asked my fair share of communities before I even posted this. Hell I've been removed out of discords because I say "I see, that's not what the rules say but I totally understand, let me think about it". A community that truly has the expectation makes sense to me. If I write one word or a thousand, that is my choice in a truly no word count community.

 

My point, and what I'm trying to express here, is that communities that DO have an expectation have also put themselves into the "no word count" or "no minimum" category which is deceptive. As it stands most communities have taken on the "no word count" mantra but many still have a minimum expectation that they do not express until you either ask or try to participate and find out that what you've done isn't good enough.

 

So my question still stands, why have communities like this started to claim no word count even though they have a word count or at minimum an expectation?

This I 💯 loathe. Outside of vetting and asking, I don’t know what else to suggest. Unless there was a list that could be created. And let’s face it, you can probably ask some sites and they will still insist they are “no word count” even when they really aren’t. It sucks finding out after the fact because you’ve invested time in joining.

 

I believe this comes from “no word count” being a HOT label for a site. A fad. It’s the new cool thing to label your site as to attract attention. Same thing is done with “LGBTQ+ friendly”. It’s actively exploited.

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10 hours ago, Somniac said:

So, if I'm reading this correctly, your problem is not with communities who legitimately have zero fucks to give about 0+ words, but communities that say they do yet practice something different.

 

You ask some about this, and they boot you.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong - you've found your solution, have you not? You ask for clarification, and they give you the boot instead. That's on them, and they could spare everyone involved some disappointment by being more up front about their expectations.

 

As for why they do this - sounds like they're casting a wider net in hopes of sorting out the select fish they want afterwards.

 

I'm more looking for discussion on it and to see if others have insight on it. I think @Hannable is likely right though. It may be the new "Fad" of the moment like saying your site is 333 when its really 323 or 222 because it creates the "vibe" that people appear to be looking for so they seem to be more appealing.

 

What I find amusing about that sentiment though, is I find that sites that are honest about what they expect seem to have more longevity than a site that says one thing and does another.

 

You're not wrong @Somniac I'm obviously not going to stick with a site that isn't honest about their expectations, that's sort of a given. I guess I'm just more accustomed to finding this out in the rules. Now I'm having to either find out the hard way (which is to try) or to have to fish around talking to administrators.

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  • 2 weeks later...

The idea that sites would lie about being no word count is wild to me, having only ever been on sites that legitimately let me write whatever I want. I have absolutely done dialogue-only or even single-word posts sometimes when I want to keep things moving but don't feel particularly compelled to put in anything else.

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On 8/8/2022 at 6:09 AM, Hal said:

The idea that sites would lie about being no word count is wild to me, having only ever been on sites that legitimately let me write whatever I want. I have absolutely done dialogue-only or even single-word posts sometimes when I want to keep things moving but don't feel particularly compelled to put in anything else.

 

And those sorts of sites DO exist! However you will more often find a site that claims it, but doesn't mean it.

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  • 2 weeks later...

My sites are no word count, and I stand by it. Just because the site culture that develops is for people of longer, lengthier replies, doesn't mean we have a word count. It means we don't. We don't say things like "must match other posts", etc. because sometimes I write short as hell posts, and they are still just as loved as my longer ones. I have some characters that I absolutely 100% cannot write short posts for, and some I can. I don't enforce the belief that people should write as much as the rest of the community, but I'm also not going to stop people from refusing to write with someone else because they don't like their post length. It's unfair, and is basically enforcing a word count (in this case, saying that you have to write with someone even if you don't want to because short posts and long posts are equal).

 

On the other hand, I do believe that people should be able to write with who they want, what they want, and when they want. Their reasons are their own, and as long as there is some effort in including new people, I don't see a problem with the site culture developing into longer post form. Most people who join and realize the length of posts is not something they can do, they bow out amicably and we wish them luck. If you start something over it, though, you might get booted just because it comes off like picking a fight or, well, starting something.

 

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 8/19/2022 at 2:02 AM, multiplicity! said:

My sites are no word count, and I stand by it. Just because the site culture that develops is for people of longer, lengthier replies, doesn't mean we have a word count. It means we don't. We don't say things like "must match other posts", etc. because sometimes I write short as hell posts, and they are still just as loved as my longer ones. I have some characters that I absolutely 100% cannot write short posts for, and some I can. I don't enforce the belief that people should write as much as the rest of the community, but I'm also not going to stop people from refusing to write with someone else because they don't like their post length. It's unfair, and is basically enforcing a word count (in this case, saying that you have to write with someone even if you don't want to because short posts and long posts are equal).

 

On the other hand, I do believe that people should be able to write with who they want, what they want, and when they want. Their reasons are their own, and as long as there is some effort in including new people, I don't see a problem with the site culture developing into longer post form. Most people who join and realize the length of posts is not something they can do, they bow out amicably and we wish them luck. If you start something over it, though, you might get booted just because it comes off like picking a fight or, well, starting something.

I agree with this 100%! My site too is no wc and I mean it. I know even for me some characters I can't write long posts for while others I can. I did come up in the community back when most sites had a min word count of 300, so I've been trying to reprogram myself into not doing that, especially when my muse struggles at times. But to each their own. People can write however long they want. That's the beauty of roleplaying and writing. 

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  • 5 months later...

I have never believed in literal word counts. This isn't schoolwork and shouldn't feel like it.
But I do believe in setting standards with a flexible attitude when it's not a sandbox RP. On my site's rules I state 'don't write one-liners or two-liners very often.' That it's quality over quantity on my site. Basically I want to ensure that no one feels preassure or guilty if they're ever in a situation where they can't do more than one or two sentences/lines, for whatever reason. That they know it's okay as long as it's not their norm.

I combine this with laid-back/relaxed activity rule, so that there's no preassure to IC post when you're feeling too tired or otherwise creatively blocked. You can just go offline and do whatever you need to do. Or, because absolutely all activity counts on my site you can opt to do any kind of OOC activity on the site or on our Discord. Even if it's just chatting about whatever. Which may help with a writer's block or other such issue.
 

Basically, instead of word count or very strict standards I hope to offer a stress-free creative environment which hopefully draws in writers who enjoy aiming at quality over quantity and who believe that it doesn't always mean long posts any more than constant one-liners. And that the quality doesn't always have to be one's best, because the most important thing is that you enjoy writing the post.

How do you determine if you will fit into a site if it has no word count and doesn't but a low end delimiter on what that means?
I look at a few game threads. That'll tell me way more than any that kind of explanation in rules ever could.

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On 4/28/2022 at 10:13 PM, Morrigan said:
  • So thoughts? Opinions?
  • Why don't you have a word count in your rules?
  • How do you determine if you will fit into a site if it has no word count and doesn't but a low end delimiter on what that means?
  • Would you join a site that has no word count just to find out that everyone posts more or less than what you expected and are expected to keep up?


My thoughts are still the same as when the trend of literate sites with x00+ word count minimums came about; Word counts can die, they can go to hell and die.

I don't have a word count in sites I make because it's up to the person, I've always been of the mindset that Any post is better than no post. And one may not have the time, muse, or brain power to drop a detailed multi-paragraph post. And at least from my perspective I feel the lasting effects of word counts have contributed a lot to replies being slow and people feeling pressured to reply in roleplays so they burn out quicker. I don't even have a; "Well we'd like to at least see at least x amount of sentences or whatever." Because I really doubt anyone has the skill to make a one to two word post that works lol. My god I would love to see it though lmao.

I don't, I just do my own thing. If the staff talk to me about it, I thank them for the time I had on the site, inform the people I'm rp'ing with and leave because I'm just not gonna. I'm there to have fun, not worry about how big or small my posts are. 

Regardless of if I was expected to keep up with others or not, and I know this sounds hella pompus but when you're RP'ing with me you get what you get. Again I'm in the hobby to have fun, having to worry about matching another person's post in terms of length or whatever just leads to poor content, long wait times for posts, undue pressure, multi-paragraph posts stuffed full of unneeded introspective things that can't be responded to, and poor RP practices such as post splicing and unnatural dialogue.

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  • 10 months later...

Why don't you have a word count in your rules?

The quality of the content is more important to me than the quantity! When I make rules on word count, I express that there isn't one. However, the general rules of the kinds of sites I like tend to round it out the rest of the way itself. For example, rules about your characters acting in-character to themselves and such -- obviously it's hard to do that if you're not putting really any content into your posts.

 

How do you determine if you will fit into a site if it has no word count and doesn't but a low end delimiter on what that means?

I browse the site's content for the general vibe. Check the most recent posts from a few active users and see what kind of posts they make. Ultimately, my standards aren't super high -- I'm just looking for cohesiveness in characters more than something about words.

 

Would you join a site that has no word count just to find out that everyone posts more or less than what you expected and are expected to keep up?

I'd join, and if the vibe doesn't fit, I'd just leave. 🤷‍♀️

 

 

Ultimately, I think too that the social environment / RP level naturally regulates itself. Let's say you start a site with your friends, and you're all generally in the range of a couple of paragraphs with an emphasis on strong characters, and no word minimum. Someone who comes to decide for themselves if they want to join, if they're only wanting to post a sentence or two with underdeveloped characters, will see that and likely not stay because it doesn't match what they want.

 

On the discussion of "why do sites say they have no word count but have an unspoken expectation of it," I feel like it's missing the forest for the trees. The word count rule, at least on my sites, don't exist in a vacuum and it's not the only rule. You can say "no word count" but still have expectations, if that makes sense. But, if there are actually sites who have no word count rules and say it but also don't have anything about content expectations, then that frustration is valid.

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