Concept Clones

[Orchid 12]

You pour your heart and soul into a site. You manage to get it off the ground, and it's awesome. There's nothing better than a site that's active, that everyone enjoys.

 

Then your activity dwindles. Real Life kicks you in the balls.

 

You notice a member has 'borrowed' a ranking system you developed from scratch, to use in a different genre site. Whatever, it's not that big of a deal. They changed it. It's not a carbon copy.

 

Your site dies. Everyone's real life kicked their ball-sacks and everyone's just kind of, poking it with a stick.

 

Go back to actually be dutiful, close things properly, and there's an advertisement from an old member. Catches your eye. You read it and think "Huh, this sounds just like THIS EXACT SITE." They even slip something about 'Inspired by [yoursitename]' into their advertisement. What is this tomfoolery?

 

A quick browsing of the rules, and they are SO DAMN FAMILIAR.

 

Because they were STOLEN. WORD FOR WORD. FROM YOUR SITE.

 

That's not all! Your Plot! Your information pages, it's all on THEIR SITE.

 

What in the good name of Grace are you supposed to do? How do you handle this? Am I wrong for being unreasonably irate?

[Honorem 219]

You're not wrong for being upset at all. The least they could have done if they were going to make a site inspired by the information on yours is to ask your permission. Not only didn't they ask, but they ripped plenty of stuff by the sounds. One page is something, several is something else.

 

I'd ask them to rewrite everything in their own words. If that doesn't work, you could contact the admins of the host. If your old forum is still up, it would be easy to see who stole from who.

Edited May 25, 2016 by Honorem

[Orchid 12]

I'm just.... i really just want to write violently right now, and I'm not normally a violent person. Concept clone I could have gotten over. Everyone and their mother loves a good concept.

 

This instance it was a DBZ Site. His plot, identical to mine. It's more wordy, but the concept is exactly the same. The more I look at this site, the more I find my compiled information. I took the time to write, and code, a huge timeline that isn't available in that particular format, anywhere. I did it by hand. It took hours.

 

He's got it, word for freaking word, on his site. The obvious part is where he copy pasted, and didn't grab a strike out code that was included. That tipped me off.

 

Unfortunately I don't see where on Proboards I can report the theft. It's not exactly Original Content, but personally compiled information not anywhere else. I am however going to be watching directory sites and see if they can help me by not allowing his advertisements.

 

And yes, my site is still up, and still public. I was going in to close it all down and recycle the c-box for something else. That's when I noticed all this.

[Orchid 12]

Quote

anon1325: Gaz, from Nexus. The site Time stole the timeline from. Would have been nice to get credit for that. And all the other information that was 'influence' for this site. But that's okay, the theft has been reported. You guys have fun with your rip off site.

Tue May 24, 8:32:24pm

0hans0gruber0: I don't at all see anything pertaining to our Plot Timeline on Nexus. Prove me wrong if you wish, but I am sure that your dead site doesn't have the exact same timeline.

anon2527: consider yourself proven wrong.

anon2527: http://dbznexus.jcink.net/index.php?showtopic=5

Tue May 24, 8:33:45pm

anon2527: your error shows in the last line of YOUR timeline, where Goku Kakarot is posted. our timeline had struck out the name Goku. Very obviously a copy paste job. the timeline was done personally by me, by hand, as one like it didn't exist when the site was put together.

0hans0gruber0: But is it copywritten?

0hans0gruber0: That is the main question?

 

With that kind of attitude, I can see that I should not be angry because they are children while i have better things to do.

[slytherinwitch 0]

This happened to me once. The not very inventive even stole the name of the game along with the plot, rules, class schedule and everything else compiled in my site. They went a step further and blackballed me personally everywhere they could. I found that reputable ad sites will take down obvious and provable rip-offs, but unfortunately, not all ad sites are reputable. The only good thing is that with their attitude, their site will likely not last long.

[VirusZero 176]

Just for clarity on what copyright around roleplay...

1- Concepts/ideas cannot be copywritten.

For example an idea like "Disney, but not Star Wars, in Space" is an idea and can go 20 different directions. 

 

2- Fandom work cannot be copywritten. 

Anything created as fandom actually belongs to the original creator under derivative works. So creating a new plot for something Star Wars? Sorry but that's Disney's. 

 

3- Copyright is applied the second the work is created.

In years past you used to have to make a physical copy (one trick was to mail yourself a copy) but that's no longer really necessary now. Now when you create something the copyright is applied to your work.

 

However, that doesn't mean you're up a certain creek without a paddle. Complete copies of codes and skins and whatnot can still be copyrighted. And because they lifted the whole code... you can still do something. 

 

Grab screenshots of everything. Normally I'd recommend contacting them, but it seems like that may not do any good here. So instead file a Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA) report with their host. (Most hosts have a DMCA report somewhere. JFH, offhand, has their's here.  Proboards has their's here. Be sure to read this page clearly and follow directions exactly. )

 

 

 

Going forward, or for others that have this happen to them... here's a brief guide on what to do:

1- Collect evidence.

Grab screenshots of everything (get screenshots of the content side by side if you can to show how identical it is), make sure timestamps are included. Record URLs too. 

 

2- Contact the offending party.

Contact them via email and ask them politely to remove your content. State which site you are from and what you want removed. Do not curse at them, show you are upset or make threats. (Do not indicate you will report them. This actually makes things more difficult as they're likely to go into lockdown mode and/or ban you.) Additionally do not barter with them, do not state they can keep it if they provide credit (as that means you're more or less okay with them pilfering.) 

 

If they do remove the content go to step 3A. Otherwise 3B.

 

3A- Monitor

After a successful removal (or report), check back with that site a few times (after a week, 2 weeks and then a month) to see if they've kept the stolen content down or not. (Some sites will remove content when asked... but a few days later, after they think they're not being watched anymore, will put that content back up.)

If they restore your content then go right to step 3B. They've been warned to remove the content, they pulled it down when asked but once thye thought you weren't looking they put it back. This is a dirty, deceptive trick and shows they aren't going to engage in fair play. So it does no good to talk to them anymore.

 

3B- Escalate

If they refuse to co-operate then you escalate things and report them to their host. Include all the screenshots, a brief explanation of the issue, screenshots of any correspondence you've had with the thief and any links you have (plus whatever other proof you may have).

 

WARNING - Do not attempt to escalate before contacting the offending party!

The reason is that many hosts will ask you if you've tried contacting them, if you haven't then they won't do anything. (Until you provide proof that they have either responded and refused or are refusing to respond. EX- a screenshot of the email you sent showing the timestamp and how many days it's been without a reply. Over 5 days is generally enough to be considered ignored.)

Note that a DMCA report has stricter requirements because it is a legal proceeding that authorizes a host to remove content from a site regardless of that admin's wishes. It is not a joke or to be trifled with. 

 

Some hosts may have a ToS report option for copyright infringement, but this is more for you reporting on behalf of another party. Say for example: 

- A has a site.

- B steals content from A.

- C reports B on behalf of A. C would use the copyright infringement report rather than DMCA report. (This is because they don't own the content in the first place.)

 

Using this one (if you're the content owner) can actually slow the reporting process down or even get it dismissed entirely. Additionally, don't get multiple users to mass report as that slows the process down also. (Plus it can look like you're trying to gang up on a site. Though if a few people report a site of their own volition that's fine, just don't co-ordinate reports.)

 

Also, just for a heads up, these reports take time to read and investigate so don't expect an instant reply. It can be upwards of a week before you hear anything. Or you may not even hear anything back at all. (The host may simply remove the content and let that be the end.)

 

Edited May 25, 2016 by VirusZero

[Orchid 12]

As it turns out, the people who 'argued' on the matter, weren't even staff on the site. I have just finished contact, and he just took the entire site down. So, I feel better.

 

@VirusZero Thank you for this useful information, as I am going to be saving this for future reference.

 

I really just needed somewhere to vent and get ideas on what I should do, so you guys are all totally awesome and I love this place. Thank you.

[Morrigan 1,826]

We love you too @mellomeme

 

It always sucks to have your content stolen, I'm glad they took down the site. Remember to watch for it though. Like @VirusZero said check on it over the next month and make sure they don't re-open it just because they think you aren't looking.

[Guest Archaic Cyborg]

Sadly, people will do what they want, even if you're polite about the whole 'borrowing' situation. I've had an applicant join, just to ask if they can borrow my site for a test rp. I declined, because what the fuck, mate, but they went ahead later on and just stole my content for their own game (same fandom etc). The admin has since moved on and written her own content, but theft is still a pain. Theft is theft.

 

All you can do is keep an eye on them, make sure you don't get obsessed with hunting for more dirt; don't make a big, public spectacle out of it-- and yet, ensure that people know that your site has been used for other games.  Hopefully your thief doesn't have the stamina or motivation to reopen their site, but at the very least you can be happy knowing that your site is genuine! Trying to maintain a 'fake' site must be draining, frankly.

[Honorem 219]

On 5/26/2016 at 0:27 PM, Blackjack Bart said:

and yet, ensure that people know that your site has been used for other games.

I'm curious about this, never had it happen to me but would be nice to know some pointers at how to do this right, without being 'in your face' about it? Do you go to directories and let them know 'this site is copying us', or put a footnote on your own forum, or what?

[Guest Archaic Cyborg]

5 hours ago, Honorem said:

I'm curious about this, never had it happen to me but would be nice to know some pointers at how to do this right, without being 'in your face' about it? Do you go to directories and let them know 'this site is copying us', or put a footnote on your own forum, or what?

 

It's hard to say, because there is the idea that if you leave something alone--- it won't snowball into something bigger. If the thieves are pretty obnoxious/widespread, I might contact the staff of the major directories I'm listed on, IF the directory staff even want to know about off-board issues. Some directories want nothing to do with issues that aren't related to their site, and fair enough. Staff of games can't go running to directory forums for help, because it's between two individual games, not the directory.

 

A footnote on signatures and such can be seen as a minor form of blacklisting, so to be safe you could just add the footnote to your site's disclaimers & credits? I wouldn't outright name the other mob / site, but something with your creation date could help. In any case, people believe what they want to believe, regardless of available info-  I find it easier to just focus on running your own game and not what game #4 is doing over there, in another corner of the internet.  Chances are that people won't even realise there are clones, not unless someone points it out!

[Morrigan 1,826]

I'll throw in my experience on co/running a directory for 4 years (I can't believe it's been that long already) as far as letting them know, at least here on the initiative and on DF.

 

We've had a few games that jump onto it and start screaming. First off, be sure that it's a rip off. I've seen things from "They used the same intro on their site as our site" and "The promo images from the fandom we are both a part of are similar!!!!!"  to "They stole our pre-made skin that we got off a resource site". It's really pathetic what people think is stealing compared to what is actually stealing. Hell, there was a site that claimed that the other site was stealing when the original site worked with/through the other site to be sure that they weren't infringing as they thought they were to begin with and the site STILL complained that the other site was infringing.

 

From my perspective, to be quite frank, I don't give a flying fuck until they apply to be listed. It's not my job to police what content of yours is stolen. We have a strict rule of "What happens off the initiative stays off of the initiative". If we chased after every thief since roleplaying began we wouldn't be able to keep up to be honest.

 

As such, we don't mind being advised of a "potential theft" by someone sending it to a Communications mod like @Amelia. As @VirusZero said take screen shots, show the comparisons. I certainly recommend the highlight tool on the snipping tool available on any Windows 7+ computer to show the exact replicas or the slight differences (for most it will be the differences). From there we here file it.

 

If the site applies to the directory we then take the information and investigate to make our decision. If they are copiers then we deny them to the directory. If they are not then we will approve them.

 

We do not go off of words. We only go off of proof.

 

With the way the internet is screenshots are best. Even though they can be altered we trust that someone won't alter them just to get their way but we will look at links and similar as well.

[VirusZero 176]

Just to chime in again, I spent roughly 3 years on JFH staff and one of the things I did was take preliminary looks at Terms of Service reports. (I never dealt with DMCA reports, those went straight to Jcink via email.) And one thing I noticed a lot was that people were absolutely petty about trying to claim things. One person tried reporting another site for using the same name as their character. That was the only similarity (and, if I remember correctly, the names weren't even spelled the same. It was like John Smith and Jon Smith.) 

 

I even got to investigate a report where someone had stolen code from me. (To the person who submitted the report, you know who you are and I thank you. To the person who stole the code... screw you.) 

 

On another site I saw a person publicly accuse another of stealing their theme. Except the theme in question had no similarities to the one purported to be stolen. The accuser demanded that the person either give them credit or delete the theme. Except no theft had occurred (I reviewed the code of both themes personally).

 

Which is why I really stress gathering evidence first. I mean if you can't conclusively prove that it was copied... your host can't (and shouldn't) do anything. 

 

I should also stress not to make public accusations because, honestly they just cause problems. If the person did in fact steal then things get vicious in a hurry. Meanwhile if they didn't actually steal it leads to people haranguing the accuser and possibly the innocent party too. (Some people will attack the innocent party on the mere suspicion of theft, lack of evidence be damned.) Plus it just drags the issue public and invites people to take sides, make comments and take shots. So it's really not worth it.

 

I would definitely report a site to a directory though if there was definitive proof that they'd stolen stuff. But do it privately for reasons mentioned.