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Drama from nowhere?


Honorem
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As thread title suggests, need some advice about unnecessary drama out of literally nowhere.

 

Let me give you some context. Member A joined a month ago. Member A now has two active characters and three active threads. Her plotter was on fire with interest within a day of posting it, and a number of our old guard of members have joined threads.

 

I wake up to this PM:

I think I messed up with <character name>.

Or at least her plot.

I don't really feel welcomed or liked anymore. I'm considering leaving because I feel I don't amount to much here. All I want to do is make people happy, and write with people.

 

Part of me wants to ask what's wrong. The other part of me wants to say that I don't play mind games.

Members have been incredibly warm and welcoming to this player.

We don't have a discord. We don't have a place where conversations are hidden. I've checked PM logs, nothing there. There is nowhere on this site where a single bad word has been said about this member. They have been included right off the bat, and are receiving replies to their threads daily. The second character they made had a RP partner within an hour of being approved, for instance.

 

Any of you guys experienced this kind of thing before, and if so how did you handle?

Edited by Honorem
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Ok, may have jumped the gun a bit. So I learned the issue stems from a single post that another member made in one of their threads. The character isn't being cooperative with their character and they're taking that personally OOC.

 

It's not a subtle dig at the player either; the member who made the post has had the same character be disagreeable with my characters in threads too. It's simply the way the character is.

 

So in light of that update, advice? I've never had to give the 'It's RP, don't take it as an insult!' talk before. :P

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Alright, cool, glad I'm not alone there. I sent them a PM telling them the golden rule is not to blur IC and OOC, and if thread progression is vital that characters get along, then reach out to the member in question and see if a compromise can be agreed upon.

 

I don't feel it's ever my place or right to ask members 'hey, so and so doesn't like confrontation, stop playing your character the way they are!' Right?

 

Bit of an update, now there's now sighing and moody attitude in the cbox. I'm really not sure how to say 'cut it out' in a polite way. Because yeah, definitely unnecessary drama right there.

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If I were you, I'd send along another PM just to remind her that her attitude in cbox may be offputting to others and to please stop. If she persists, then it might be time for more serious measures but I'd at least give her a chance. Some people may not realise how their actions can come across to others.

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I'm going to go a step beyond the usual "Oh, don't mix OOC and IC" because there's more self-incrimination here than that. This is a rough place to be in because essentially, you are telling the player that they need to make peace with their own inner demons. And I know we're no psychiatrists here, but like so many other things in life, roleplay is the meeting of people, and the meshing of all the problems they bring with them...

 

Quote

I'm considering leaving because I feel I don't amount to much here.

 

The author feels they have no self-worth.

 

Quote

I don't really feel welcomed or liked anymore. ...All I want to do is make people happy, and write with people.

 

The author states that they are a people-pleaser and that because that is not happening (it's impossible to please everyone all the time, so they've set themselves up for permanent failure), they no longer feel welcome or liked (in their own head, as you discovered everyone liked them). And just from this platform it's easy to see a player who wanders from site to site, packing up each and every time the slightest thing doesn't go optimistically. That's a very sad and lonely roleplay life to live...

 

Did you notice the phrase "make people happy" ? That's extremely candid and a pure indication of what their life will be like if they can't heal this. Because you can't make people anything, especially not happy. This person is going to have so many horrible relationships. Perhaps abusive ones, too.

 

No/low self-worth is usually associated with some trauma that hasn't been healed and especially with people-pleasing, it's easy to find a way into depression. Great, now the picture is even thicker...

 

So, in this particular case, the issue isn't "How do I tell the player to learn IC vs OOC" but rather, "How do I get this player to deal with their issues without being their personal therapist?" . Telling everyone with antagonist characters to be nice isn't healthy for the player nor the community, and telling all the players to be super-duper nice isn't healthy for the player either and it creates a "walking on thin ice" environment which is a ticking time-bomb for flaring up tempers.

 

Here's what I would suggest, though I'm having a hard time making it sound not-sarcastic in an effort to get straight to the point:

 

Quote

 


Hello, PLAYER,

Thank you for the personal note that you have shared with me. I understand where you are coming from, and I am sorry that you are feeling that way.

 

It noticed a post where a mean character was mean, but towards your character. Is this why you feel this way? And, does this sort of thing happen a lot, where a character is mean to yours and then you feel like you personally have no value to the roleplay because you can't make everyone happy? Wow, that's a very tall order, trying to make everyone happy all the time! It seems like that might be an impossible thing, like a set-up for failure every time, and so completely exhausting, too! And then if you move to a new roleplay every time this happens... wow, so much moving around and all that effort to get accepted and set up again and again and again and just not ever really progressing any in your plots or plans ... It doesn't sound like very much fun at all : ( I'm sorry that you feel like you have no value if you aren't making people happy. I just want to assure you that you are valuable just the way you are! You don't have to do anything at all. We enjoy having you here because we like you as a person and as a writer and we hope that you will stay with us. Wow, this sure is a lot of really deep and hard things to struggle with. I once had some problems like these too, and I started talking to a therapist, and they helped me through them. I hope that you can find that in your life too.

 

Can I ask you to try something? I want to challenge you to roleplay with us for one week, and during that time to not try to make anyone anything. To not worry about if your posts are good enough, or if you are good enough, and to just focus on you enjoying your time here. Every story has antagonists and downfalls and troubling times, let your character get through them and really shine! After all, isn't a story boring if nothing bad ever happens?

 

I don't want to seem insensitive to how you are feeling, so if you really do want to go, we respect that, and we wish you all the best. But, I just really think that roleplay is supposed to be fun, something that you enjoy, something that's stress-free, and I think that if you can find it in you to drop all of these burdens and just, just play, just write, and forget about all those things, that you might find roleplaying a whole bunch more fun.

 

Sending hugs and warm thoughts your way!

STAFFER NAME
 

 

 

 

 

As you can see, my post is not about helping the player stop their drama on your site and to just play - whether they go or stay is up to them. But for this player, you may be the only person to every say something. So stand up. Say something. If they leave, they leave. If they stay, they stay. All that matters is the player gets healthy again. One thing is for sure - unlike the other 238492384202340932 roleplays they have surely abandonded because of their issue, you and your roleplay they will always remember. And perhaps, they will return a healthy, vibrant player.

Edited by xexes
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You're very kind, @xexes.  I wouldn't have been able to word a reply so nicely.

 

@Honorem, I agree with the above that you should write a genuinely caring reply to the person.  But please watch yourself that said person doesn't fall dependent upon you.  It's great that Xexes mentioned how one can't base self worth on pleasing other people, but you might want to set up some expectations as well.  Perhaps I'm a bit more jaded in that I've seen too many people who are like, "I just want to make everybody happy!!!11!!" and then start flailing and wailing when they "fail" this because somebody was "mean" to them . . . every single time.  It's exhausting, and as an admin, you need to be able to draw a line where helping them is outside of your jurisdiction.

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I love @xexes reply, but for me, that's a very personal approach. When I was young, I approached rp in a similar way your problem member seems to be doing, and if I received a reply like that, I'd probably just end up ditching rather than replying. 

 

Instead, I would probably keep it simple. Don't presume to know what kind of person they are or their troubles. But tell them that the community values their presence and their writing. It's ok if some characters don't like or get along with yours - it creates an interesting story and can lead to unexpected and exciting plot development. If everyone got along all the time, that would make for a very boring game. So embrace the obstacle that this other character is giving you. Get creative in your approach to them. 

 

Stay focused on the writing, and not the drama. You're all there to write stories, not play in a popularity contest. They may need a little extra love OOC, but that's ok. Praise their characters or writing ability a little to bolster their spirits, but don't get yourself in too deep. Like @Uaithne said, you don't want them to become dependent on you.

 

And if they ultimately end up leaving? That's really sad and disappointing, but it's probably for the best.

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I completely agree with Sage here. While xexes reply example is great and empathetic, it's to much for a person you barely know. You're not their therapist or counselor. I would simply do as Sage suggested and keep it simple with simple explanations on how rp icc works and that they are valuable. There's really no need to get or read to far into it. Does this person of some anxiety, self esteem and dependency issues? Probably, but as I said, you're not their therapist or counselor. Just keep it simple. And if they leave, they leave. 

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19 hours ago, jenneral_jennson said:

I completely agree with Sage here. While xexes reply example is great and empathetic, it's to much for a person you barely know. You're not their therapist or counselor. I would simply do as Sage suggested and keep it simple with simple explanations on how rp icc works and that they are valuable. There's really no need to get or read to far into it. Does this person of some anxiety, self esteem and dependency issues? Probably, but as I said, you're not their therapist or counselor. Just keep it simple. And if they leave, they leave. 

Exactly, thank you for this. Sums up exactly the way I feel about it too.

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My ex-boyfriend's aunt will die in 2 years.

 

You see, she has an eating disorder and over the years her body weight has declined dramatically. In her 60's, she's now thinner and frailer than her 90 year old mother.

 

But nobody says anything to her. They're all too scared. It might be impolite.

 

So, her heart will give way and she will die.

 

 

Look, guys, roleplay is a game on the internet we play with strangers. Is that reply too personal? Yes! Is it uncomfortable? Yes! But they've put themselves on a course to leaving the site and this may be the last we ever talk to this person. It's about being the person to break out of social norms and say something. For once. It's about deciding that another person's well-being is more important than being comfortable.

 

If we say nothing, they will exhaust themselves, leave, and go on about many other roleplays and their life this way for a very long time. If we say something, then maybe the same is true, but maybe we also help them realize they need professional help and live their lives to the fullest.

 

You see, in it's very simplest sense, saying something is putting someone else first, before ourselves.

 

When I was at my darkest hour, contemplating which butcher knife would work best to slit my wrists, it was a person I barely knew, who said something uncomfortable, that saved my life.

 

I hope that you all can do the same.

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Two very different situations. Two very different issues. Two very different people.

 

I will say it once and I will say it a million times. You are not this person's (or any other random stranger on the internet) therapist or counselor. You do not even know if they have self esteem issues, anxiety or depression, you are assuming based on second hand knowledge. They, more than likely, do have these issues and would pop on a DSM-V scale, but an assessment of these issues takes more than a PM saying they're basically a people pleaser and someone trained to interpret those results. But that is not for you to say. 

 

I'm glad your life turn out for the better but that's not to say someone else's would given the same treatment from a virtual stranger. The problem with trying to "counsel" or be an "arm chair therapist" is the fact you do not know this person's triggers. You do not know what would cause this person to implode. 

 

Again. You are not this person's therapist or counselor. Keep the reply short, sweet and to the point. You do not need to go farther into it than that. You could be doing more harm than good if you did.

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I think that the only thing you can do is tell them that they are welcome on the board. (If they weren't they wouldn't get anyone wanting to rp with them.) They need to stop causing problems in the c-box. (I'm not sure really how you can word it without it sounding snippy, though.) See if their behaviour changes.

 

The problem with the internet, is you really can never tell if someone is being a troll, or really does have issues. I have, however, seen it a lot where people post lots of messages about not being wanted, not being welcome, etc, etc, and I can't see where it came from. With most of that being on twitter, though, there always seemed to be a reactionary type of behaviour to it, where people post things when they are upset about something and c-boxes, any where where you can post short, instant messages seems to fuel it. (And really, you don't know what's put them in a bad mood - it could be something on the site, such as the ic tension or it could be something in rl that's set them off.)

 

If their behaviour doesn't change, and it continues to be a problem on the site, then they should go. On twitter, I've seen cycles of this behaviour where a person is relatively fine, something happens (whether they cause it or some random person sets them off, or if it's someone they've argued with before (either could be to blame, or both as bad as each other), they rant and rave for a couple of days, lock, flip or delete the account, come back a while later, be fine for a bit and do the same thing. I don't know what the answer is to it, other than if they do have a problem, they need to acknowledge it themselves and seek help.

Edited by Icewolf
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Perhaps there is a middle ground? I don't think any admin is responsible for consoling wayward players, but should someone want to reach out and offer words of kindness, it shouldn't be discouraged. It might be beneficial to have a discussion about what sort of things should or shouldn't be said if the admin wants to contact the player in this manner. That would help people like @xexes or myself who don't mind talking to their members on something that other people might not want to. (Which, again, I don't really blame people for.) But as @jenneral_jennson said, we have to be careful that it's not too much that it could have the other effect and hurt them instead of help them.

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If someone is blurring the line of IC/OOC I would do three things:

 

- Remind them about the IC/OOC divide.

- Remind them about all the wonderful plots they have going on and what you personally are looking forward to from them. Use specific and concrete examples.

- State that you will be sad to see them go because of the above.

 

If it happens again, then I would slightly change my tact:

 

- Reiterate the IC/OOC divide.

- Remind them of all the cool stuff.

- Ask if everything's alright in the real world. "Because from experience I know that if I'm struggling in the real world, or even if I've been sleeping poorly, I can find myself slipping into that mistake because I'm not thinking as clearly or as rationally as I can be. If you are struggling, maybe you're best focussing on gentle plots and avoiding characters that have a mean streak. You can always return to drama when you're feeling better."

 

Third time? Suggest that maybe they need a forum where the plots are gentler. "We're really sorry to see you go but this is clearly something that you struggle with and the last thing any community should do is make you feel bad about yourself."

 

As @Uaithne said, kindness should never be discouraged but neither should you become a counsellor for any member on your forum. I think it's fine to ask after someone's real world because these things can leak into the RP world and sometimes it's helpful to remind people of that. The reminder can have them going, oh whoops! My issue isn't actually with the forum, it's all this other stuff going on that's making life difficult. How embarrassing. 

 

In saying that, I'm pretty solitary in the real world so I don't do a lot of emotional labour. It's therefore pretty easy for me to do the above and I appreciate that life circumstances might mean your emotional energy varies.

 

In the case of someone is just emotionally immature and can't remind themselves of the IC/OOC divide...I don't have a strong opinion on how you deal with such a member. It really depends on what you feel is best for your community.

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