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Political Correctness and Roleplay


Uaithne
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58 minutes ago, Uaithne said:

Hypocrisies such as "Be who you are because you're wonderful . . . unless I don't like who you are, then you're a bigot."

 

This x1000. 

 

This topic in general is one that I feel strongly about because it drives me insane. Politically correct bullshit is the bane of my existence in the role play sphere. I can ignore it in the out of character realm, but I really loathe having to water down and censor my characters. Never minding the general lack of maturity or reason behind this annoying inability to separate fiction from reality (i.e. taking an insult to one's character personally), a lot of role players seem to forget what a valuable tool literary forms have been in progressing so many social issues. 

 

I think its a safe best that most of us here were assigned reading material in school which was intended to make us consider things from a new perspective. I don't know any U.S. citizen that wasn't at least assigned books like To Kill a Mockingbird or something similar - whether or not they actually read it is a different matter entirely. 

 

Role play might be a lesser refined medium, but it can be just as valuable. I'm a female, but I love playing sexist characters - why? Because it forces me out of my natural comfort zone. It forces me to identify with something I don't agree with, an ideology that a hundred years ago would have made my life vastly and painfully different. Most importantly, it helps better understand where these beliefs and thought processes stem from; and that is the absolute most valuable tool when it comes to combating such beliefs in the physical world. I create racist and xenophobic characters for the exact same reason - both to better understand how and why these beliefs and fears come to exist, and also to identify my own hidden biases. I've learned a lot from my own characters and others - and I'm sure I'd have learned a lot more already if so many of us weren't stuck cowering from the social justice warriors of the web; because oh are they, just like the racists and bigots they claim to so despise, ever so much bolder hidden safely behind a screen then they would ever dare to be face to face. Hardcore with a keyboard, afraid to stand when there might be physical consequence. 

 

That point made, why is it completely okay to play a psychopathic murderer that relishes in brutality, but that exact same writer will get upset over a homophobic or transphobic character? You can play a murderer and no one bats an eye. Create a rapist and suddenly its not as okay. 

 

Furthermore, I hate trigger warnings. I don't believe that anyone but myself has a responsibility to protect me from the things that make me uncomfortable, and personally I don't feel that it is socially responsible to facilitate such behavior. I think my feelings on this matter were best summarized in the second season of Rick and Morty by the latter character's short tirade:

Quote

"maybe people that create things aren't concerned with your delicate sensibilities, you know? Maybe the species that communicate with each other through the filter of your comfort are less evolved than the ones that just communicate! Maybe your problems are your own to deal with, and maybe the public giving a shit about your feelings is a one-way ticket to extinction!." 

 

Edited by Dragon
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I am not obligated to create an all-inclusive roleplay (and neither are you!)

 

As a GM, my campaign is effectively a Right To Work state. I can, if I so choose, remove players for any reason under the sun. I could make a site rule that no one can join if they voted for Trump. I have no way to enforce that rule, and I would (deservedly) earn a reputation for being an ass and politicizing a hobby... but my point is, I could. 

 

Anyways, for the rest of this -

 

I've never RPed on a board that didn't have a word filter. So in my opinion, no one is censoring your Freeze Peach if the n-word is automatically blacked out, because the board owner (a private entity) has decided what language is and is not appropriate for their target audience.

 

It's pretty in-vogue to specify whether you and your characters are cis or trans. Yeah, it's clunky to explain, but I honestly like it because my friends use it to present identities that they might not have otherwise felt comfortable presenting.

 

People who are sexist and racist in-character because they like having an excuse to be sexist and racist without repercussion (because "it's just a story, bro! it's just a game!") are assholes of the highest order.

 

Players who mistake IC actions for OOC intent do not understand boundaries and should either read a self-help book or talk to a licensed counselor.

 

I put trigger warnings on posts because I have three or four players with arachnophobia. It's not my fault that they're so scared of spiders they'll stay up all night panicking, but at least as a friend I can be all "Hey guys there's a spider monster in this part of the story, so why don't you do something else with your characters for a while?"

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I have come across this so often that even reading @Uaithne's post has exhausted me. When I was at uni, our class met a researcher working at the Oxford University Museum and he said that he was so fed up of American tourists bombarding him with creationism vs evolution, natural selection and Charles Darwin (he was a biologist) that he literally couldn't discuss the topic anymore with them and made sure that he wasn't around when American tour groups were in the museum. This is exactly how I've come to feel about political debate, left activism, feminism, and just any kind of political correct topic that there is because with some people unless you agree with them on absolutely everything they consider you a bully, or worse.

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This is a broad topic. With the characters I play, the IC vs. OOC stuff doesn’t come up as much. I don’t have racist, sexist, characters. What I worry about is people not appreciating nuance.

 

I have a character who is Mormon and black. He grew up in a violent ghetto. He’s very boy scout, lawful good. He’s fairly conservative. He’s not opposed to gay marriage, but I anticipate, as he lives with roommates, if one were gay and in a relationship, it would weird him out a little. Discomfort isn’t the same as hatred. I also made him Mormon because it’s a very white conservative religion with controversy regarding how they treated people with dark skin colors. He’s a nerd and being a black nerd is harder than being a white nerd. The sub-culture of a typical black ghetto isn’t very accepting of that type.

 

I also have a character who is bisexual Turkish/Azer American and nominally Muslim. She’s going to have a girlfriend in the future and her younger brother is more religious than she is. I’d love to be able to go into an argument of him worrying about her soul while she argues about all the haram things he does. I’ve admitted to staff on the site I’m on that I’d love to write this, but am nervous when it happens. For some reason, if she were Irish Catholic and I wrote a scene like that I wouldn’t be, but Islam and it’s politically incorrect.

 

What really gets me is the out of character posturing, arrogance, hypocrisy, and victimhood.

 

To get what @Deep Sea sort of was getting at, my problem isn’t people not allowing people who say voted for Trump or Brexit, but the fact that to find out staff opinion you have to go to a directory and find their comments. It is never listed on the site that they aren’t welcome because they know how bad it will look. So someone can easily walk into a minefield by accidentally revealing the wrong information to someone. This creates an abusive environment. Also, if you really thought people with a certain viewpoint were dangerous, why wouldn’t you proclaim this on your site? Why hide it?

 

10 hours ago, Uaithne said:

People pressure diversity and inclusion, but they're not really willing to help out.  I've always scratched my head at the whole "We need more black characters!" and if you ask how to play a black character, they say, "Oh, they're just like playing white characters, duh."  But then at the same time there are conversations going on about how white people don't understand the struggles that black people go through, and how white people can never understand even if they tried. But if you try again, you'll get the same "No, really, they're just like white people.  Play them all the same."

 

I suspect we all know why the vague answers regarding writing a character not a white cis heterosexual middle class American, because most people don’t do research or know where to find it. I noticed in a thread the suggestions were jaw droppingly dumb.

 

“Consume more fiction from POC or have POCs in them.”

 

Yes, to write a realistic depiction of a poor black man from the ghetto I should consume fiction instead of documentaries and non fiction books. The stupid. It burns.

 

I’m thinking of starting a blog in the blog section here, offering resources and my thoughts on this. I just bumped into this last night. I was talking to someone about one of my characters and she was interested in a character connected to him. I showed her the wanted ad, she told me she was interested, but had no experience writing Asian characters and didn’t want to do it wrong. I had some pdfs of the culture in question on my computer and simply sent them to her in a zip folder through skype. If you provide resources that are easily and readily available, the barrier becomes much smaller.

 

As far as why they don’t provide any, there are two reasons. 1) They come from multi-ethnic places with friends from different backgrounds and thus don’t do any academic research. 2) They are writing tokens.

 

I will say in defense of some of those people, if you have a middle class black woman from a generic U.S. city in the north, her experience is going to be more common with her white friends than her cousin from the rural south or her half sister in a ghetto neighborhood. Skin color is not a culture.

 

I’ve also seen people go, “No one will judge you if your black character likes fried chicken, Asian character like martial arts, etc.” then I see rants of, “Staff from a site I joined judged my character for being too (insert here)/not enough (insert here).”

 

Yeah, it pisses me off. It feels like people are being deliberate liars.

 

I could go more on this, I haven’t even gotten into trigger warnings, but I’ll close it for now.

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I honestly don't get the hate on being politically correct. Most of the time, it's just common courtesy. I do think that there's definitely a line that gets crossed where "politically correct" becomes "obnoxious bullshit" though. To me, being politically correct is about acknowledging that there are identities and persons outside your realm of "normal" that exist, and all of these identities are valid. You live a very privileged life if you don't have to think about these things, if you stick to normal pronouns/genders/majorities/etc. You don't deal with the issues those identities present, and you never will. And yeah, being inclusive and conscious about your intentions and the execution of those intentions can be "tiring" but that also sounds like you're getting offended at having to include them. It's kind of a two way street here. And it's a big balancing act that everybody plays into. Like you can't tell someone they can't be offended at something. It's all relative. And some people will take things too far. Deal with it. Or don't.

 

I agree that there are definitely many non-politically correct topics and characters that should be explored in writing, and I have nothing against that! But not every community is right for that kind of writing. Especially in rp. A lot of people write in rp as a form of escapism, or just for fun, or just for the sake of writing. In my experience, most rpers don't take this stuff seriously. So they don't want to explore extremely heavy topics or -ist characters they might encounter with in real life. They see their rp as a safe space to create characters and let their creativity flow in fluffy clouds. They just want to have fun. So it makes sense that they don't want to encounter problematic situations and come together with people of similar political minds. And if you don't fit their mold...well that sucks. But that's also life. Part of being an adult is learning to be politically correct in the right situations and being conscious of how you affect the world. So learn to live with it, both irl, ooc, and ic, or find a community of like-minded people that you can create your own culture with. 

 

As for trigger warnings? I don't have a problem with those, either. Like I said earlier, people rp for fun. This is a hobby. If they want to read about the major dilemmas and moral conundrums of the human experience, they usually turn to literature or other media. I care about the community I write with, so I'm conscious of their triggers and things that set them off. I recently wrote something about suicide, and in the thread it kind of came out of left field, and I had one of my members come up to me and say that it caused her a lot of unwelcome emotional trauma. And I felt so bad. Because I was dumb and hadn't flagged it. The people I write with aren't just anonymous typists halfway around the world, they're my friends. Of course, this is how I feel about major triggers, like death/suicide, rape, etc. If you have a weird trigger, I'm probably not going to flag it. But I'd still like to know in some capacity that you have it so I can try to be more aware of you. The thing is, I won't not write something because someone has a trigger about it. I write what I want to write But I will put a warning that "hey, this thing is in this post, so you should probaby skip it." I much prefer trigger warnings over the blatant "you can't write about x, y, and z." It's why I like the 3-3-3 ratings on sites. I want to write I want to write. I won't censor myself. But I will flag a warning before it happens.

 

That said, I think the reason why people are more likely to write a murderer than a rapist is because, again, this is a hobby! People are more likely to have encountered a rapist than a murderer in their life, and they don't exactly what to relive that experience through rp

 

As for diversity in rp, I think anytime a forum says "we need more x characters" is weird and a cheap attempt at looking inclusive when they're really not. People write what they know. You shouldn't force your members outside of their interests or comfort zones. If a forum does this, it's a red flag to me that says they're hypocrites. They don't actually care about writing diverse characters, they just want to look like they do. Do I think writing outside your experience should be encouraged? Always. But you don't have to be an asshole about it, either. 

 

At the end of the day, you can't avoid being politically correct on a web forum. It's a part of life (unless your web community is formed on the idea that being politically correct is bullshit). You can complain about it, but it has a time and a place and a purpose. But people will abuse it. It's all about finding the right community for you, really, where you can feel free to do what you want to do. 

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I don't believe the term "Politically Correct" comes from a place of courtesy or nicity. I believe it comes from a place of "fitting in" with a particular community in a way that causes all discussion of opinions on a subject to be outright taboo. When people say "politically correct" I don't think they're talking about respect to an individual/community that's different than yourself, but instead I think they are talking about the cultural pressure from their own community to conform to a perceived, and sometimes mistranslated version of said other community. 

 

I will also go so far as to state that "political correctness" doesn't actually exist. I know, I know, it's everywhere. For example; Goodness forbid you don't like Antifa's anarchist behavior, you are automatically branded a Nazi sympathizer. Because what's "Correct" (Antifa stands for Anti Fascist) becomes a short-fact and therefore "unquestionable": "Antifa stands for Anti Fascist, so they are the good guys because they're standing against the new KKK-type jerkoffs". Good Guys, generally means on a cultural level, that anything 'bad' they do is for the greater good and therefore excusable. So then, in order to protect their own cognitive bias, anybody who doesn't agree that the ends justify the means becomes the enemy. Being the enemy, means they support Nazi's, KKK, and Fascism.

All because humans in general like to oversimplify things into easily-digested bullet points. 

 

What's "Correct" at any particular time I believe ends up being whatever somebody perceives is a majority sentiment around them, regardless of the blanket statement's relevancy to the more detailed issue you want to focus on. Again using my Antifa example, the "Politically Correct" stance could be that Antifa is standing up to Hatred and Bigotry. Which may be true on a surface level, but for the person that wants to focus on property destruction and the nature of peaceful vs violent protests in attaining what you want, it gets perceived as an oppressive shutdown instead. In this other angle, it feels like the statement is not from people that mean well (even though almost everyone means the best intentions in supporting a valid and morally good idea) but instead fascist zealots that hate anybody who doesn't agree with their EXACT opinion on a subject. 

Again, human nature to dissolve complicated nuances into Black and White, All or Nothing contexts. 

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I'm so uncomfortably moderate on everything political. It's actually insane -- so I guess I'm in the middle again here.

 

I don't have an issue with being politically correct, as long as being politically correct does not impede the site/interaction for others. That is to say, I am certainly going to follow overarching things out of character -- not using slurs, following correct pronouns, etc. This is because OOC, at least on my sites, we establish a community that is founded on mutual respect (which does not mean you have to like everyone or agree with everyone, but does mean that you have to realize that every person is a person and has the innate rights there-of.)

 

In truth, I care literally not at all about who you voted for or what you are like in real life as long as you don't create or perpetuate a community that is dangerous. (I think equality and respect goes every which-way -- if I want to be respected as a Jew, then I need to respect the whatever-religion-that-hates-mine; the only way to spread peace and love is to give it. #hippieatheart)

 

Anyway, this is just to say that in a roleplay setting, I don't want to have to follow perfect political correctness stuff -- I want to be able to play the Neonazi or the Male Chauvinist, not because I am either of them, but because they are people that exist and every voice (no matter how much I disagree) has a right to be heard, understood, and depicted.

 

For me, a site's diversity isn't about how many POC are on a site, it's how well a site shows the world; every quirk, every story, all the good and all the bad. If all of the characters in the world are a cookie cutter of the ideal man, I'm not going to be interested in the site, no matter how great the players are and how beautiful the lore is. I want to walk in and feel submerged in a new reality that I can take seriously. (Obviously, this is not what everyone is looking for in an RP, but it is what I'm looking for, which is why I actually like when character call my characters by the wrong gender or assume they're trans when they are not -- it happened in a thread, and I just chuckled to myself. This is going to be a real wake up call when this relationship gets further.)

 

I'm not everyone, and obviously some people are going to be looking for different things, and my feeling is simple: you do you. If being politically correct makes you feel comfy and you want to curl into a bubble with like-minded people and pretend that the world is a safe, loving, gentle place -- live your dreams. I won't stop you, and no one should. It's your roleplay and your life. (Just remember that that's not how the world is. These fantasies are not reality; it won't stick. It's not only dangerous emotionally but physically.)

 

But likewise, if you are siting around struggling over how much you really want to write a rapist and no one will roleplay with you, then you're looking at the wrong sites or talking to the wrong people. I've written things with a hundred trigger warnings; I have characters who can't leave the [m] boards on sites because they're walking trigger factories.

 

I will say, my general rule on triggers is that it would depend on the site and the site culture. I personally walk away from anything with triggers. I deplore them. I get so stressed out that I'm going to skip a trigger and get in trouble that I'll sit there for hours writing out everything I think that might, maybe trigger someone. Personally though, I think trigger warnings are overused and we (as the internet) are doing a real disservice to people (like vets) who have actual triggers; who have legitimate issue that make them struggle to function on a daily basis (or worse, who walk around in fear because what if something triggers them when they're in public). Certainly some people in the roleplay community have real triggers, but most of it seems like it's for show. People used to call these limits, back in ye old days of Neopets, and I think that was far more accurate to what is meant by 'trigger' in the roleplay community. 

 

Anyway, I guess, I think that political correctness is going to depend on the site in my opinion. If you're running a 1800's site, I hope that sodomy is a criminal offense (because unless it's an AU, that's just how the facts were, and what an interesting life Oscar Wilde had in many ways because of it.) If you're running a NYC '17 site, then probably being just about anyone isn't going to cause a ruckus. 

 

I do find the idea of IC vs. OOC incredibly important all the time though. If I play a racist character, I'm not racist. If I'm playing a trans-character, I'm not trans. I can be, but that's not what it means. A writer is not a character. It's an important thing that I'm pretty sure we all cover in school. You might be close with your characters; you might care about them, but at the end of the day -- if my character calls your character a [insert slur here] all the repercussions (unless it is outlined OOC in rules on board that slurs and in-character cruelty are not allowed without player consent) should be your character avoiding my character.

 

TL;DR: Broadly, I think everything depends on the site in questions and the topics which the community and players wish to discuss, but I personally think that putting limits on personality traits is the same as putting limits on race/gender/etc. The world is full of profoundly different people from profoundly different backgrounds -- I like to explore them all, and I always try to find a community/partner who likewise wants to explore the world in its natural, realistic state.

 

sorry for the text wall. <3

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Because this is a complex topic about which I don't have a concrete stance (my general philosophy is 'don't be a dick', but that's fairly subjective), I'm going to just talk about trigger warnings.

 

I don't get the hate for them, truthfully. At all. Yes, some people get ridiculous about them. People get ridiculous about anything, given enough time. But why is warning someone about something a bad thing? For some people RP is a way to explore things and for others it's a way to relax and for plenty, including myself, it's both. I myself am sensitive about suicide. I've also written posts where characters explored it. It's just this big, ugly thing that I feel a need to try and wrap my brain around no matter how I personally feel about it. For that reason, I'll also read other peoples' posts including it. But I do that when I'm in the right frame of mind to do so. If I'm not, I stay away. When stumbling over that when I'm not prepared for it can literally ruin my day, it just blows my mind that someone thinks it's too much work to type 'trigger warning: suicide'. 

 

It honestly just seems like common courtesy to me. I won't put any limits on you. You write what you wanna write. I'll do the same. Just warn me beforehand <3

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I'm also tired of it but that's all I feel comfortable saying on the subject at the moment. 

Reality is an illusion. 


 
 

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I am generally quite "politically correct"  OOC, however I don't see why a bigoted character should be off limits, when playing a sociopath or a mafioso is perfectly okay. I don't particularly enjoy writing those, but that's a matter of taste. On the other hand you -can- decide that on your board all characters should be adorable and accepting, because you want a very light hearted story for those looking for fluffy escapism. It's a choice, it's your setting, however it doesn't make you more "moral" than someone who enjoys writing about darker topics.

 

On the issue of TWs. I had a few discussions about those. I think they're a good option in some cases, but they'd become a pain if triggery matters are actually common in your board. If the game I run is supposed to be full of graphic scenes and uncomfortable topics, I'd rather have a general warning than adding spoilers to every scene. 

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  • 1 month later...

"Political Correctness" is defined as language, ideas, policies, or behaviour seeking to minimize offense to groups of people.

 

And THAT my friends and peers... is as close it gets for me to use those two infamous words. In public life, it is a fact... and in the US, I have to right to certain inalienable rights. Elsewhere in the world, not so much, and as an American, thought to be limited culturally.

 

But in personal life, I have many beliefs and views that are MY OWN and I shall not delve them here.

 

AND as an admin of a roleplaying group, I prefer to leave "politically correctness* out of my roleplay and out of the site as much as possible. I portray characters the way I want to, and expect others to do the same, all of us doing so in accordance with the time period of my site... 

 

I personally think PC is used due to the fear of offending anyone, (and/or trying to please everyone) and often results in people coming up with strange ideas, concepts, rules, and limitations to ensure this doesn't happen in the Story's environment.  I also believe this type conversation leads to a hesitant and reserved atmosphere regarding discussion and story development, and also an eroding of the overall theme that most of us want to play in our sites.  Most of us just want to *play*... or create our stories...

Now, I am not suggesting that people should not be considerate or respectful,  oh no !!! Nor am I advocating personal attacks (heck no)  but is it too much to ask that once a person joins or enters into a roleplay/creative writing site, they implicitly accept the rules according to fair play and enjoyable creative writing, or should that individual turn around and find another site whose actions don't offend them. 

 

In many role-play sites, particularly premium sites, violence, rape, torture, capture, prejudice, alternative lifestyles, physical and mental deformities, slavery, and yes, even death – are very real consequences of the theme in play, yet some refuse to RP these actions. And in our site, we have *triggers* in our sites... those key things that THAT personal cannot or will not abide by. In my honest opinion, this will alleviate the need for *Political Correctness*

 

And in relation to this,  people should be careful what they say in an open forum... and certainly do not carry comments over to the characters inworld... . 

Please remember to keep OOC and IC separate... especially when it comes to personal believes and being *Politically Correct" because your views may not be the same as mine, but we are EXCELLENT writers and storytellers together. We are all human... we all bleed red... and we all get hurt in some form or fashion... be considerate... ME? I am here to make stories for others to read and enjoy... oh yes, an accolade or virtual *pat ont e back* never hurts.

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Well, doggies! What an interesting topic!

 

In real life, by virtue of trying to be respectful and polite to everyone, I try to avoid purposely offending anyone.

 

In my RP life, it's all based on the genre and the setting. I do not expect characters on my wild west site to adhere to the 21st century standards of political correctness. Because, well, social norms were very different in the 1870s! Also, it's an imaginary character in an imaginary world. I keep OOC vs. IC separate. My character can dislike another character without that being a reflexion of how I feel about that character or its writer. In fact, on e of my characters really dislikes another of my characters. Makes for interesting conversations in my head! 

 

I had a person concerned that my game would reject them outright because of their sexual orientation. This surprised me! I guess it shouldn't have, but there you go! It never occurred to me to ask them about their private life nor would I have refused admittance based on it. All I told them was that they needed to be cognizant of the era the game was based in, its social norms and biases.

 

My issue with political correctness, in general, is that - in my experience - it seems predicated on labeling people. I choose to respect and accept each person on their merit and to be kind, polite, and respectful until that person gives me a really good reason not to be. If I am treated in the same manner as I try to treat others, it is never an issue.

 

Just my 2 cents - for what it's worth!

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Dreams get pushed around a lot, and I doubt if we'll survive.
We won't get to wake up, dreams were born to disappear.
And I'm pretty sure that none of us are here.
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