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A Survey: are play-bys essential?


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1 hour ago, VirusZero said:

I mean you put Karl Urban there and that's all they see, not the actual character who may very well be a sociopath who likes killing dogs. (Which reinforces my above point... it's not the character that the want it's the actor/actress.)

I couldn't agree more. I have a friend who will obsessively find totally unknown FCs because they want to avoid the "It's Karl Urban, therefore you must be playing someone similar to Bones, right?" problem. So because the model/actor is unknown, there is no reason for someone to be like: "Hey! This is totally what the personality is, right?" 

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Cypher.

Not entirely. It's a bit like going into a movie, pulling out a phone (putting in earbuds) and launching the music player. Then proceeding to ignore all sound from the movie. It's like sure you can do it... but it's kind of defeating point of the experience. Since at the end you're probably not going to know what really happened. (Unless the movie had subtitles... which it likely won't.) It's the same kind of thing. People get too fixed on just that graphical element that it overtook the writing component (which was the core purpose). 

 

In the case of comics and etc, the words do help alongside the visuals. But that same example doesn't hold true here. There is a delicate balance for comics to work properly. But roleplay has not achieved that balance because, as stated, people ignore the words for the pretty pictures.

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2 hours ago, Thyme said:

I couldn't agree more. I have a friend who will obsessively find totally unknown FCs because they want to avoid the "It's Karl Urban, therefore you must be playing someone similar to Bones, right?" problem. So because the model/actor is unknown, there is no reason for someone to be like: "Hey! This is totally what the personality is, right?" 

 

That's an assumption that doesn't really pan out, in my experience. 

 

Since my FC example has been thrown face into screen as an example with this thread....

 

Depending on the world or setting he exists in, I've played him as everything from a murderous, animal abusing, woman beating jackass to a near white-knight since I resigned to the suggested face claim; and I have literally never once had anyone assume the character was anything remotely similar to Bones or even Reaper (who I most commonly use to portray him visually because its one of the closer reps) by disposition). 

 

I can't argue that there are plenty out there who just want the actor like @VirusZero said, but there are enough of us who really just want the most accurate depiction that telling us to piss of can put a real dent in your potential member list; but even for the players that just want the actor... not allowing them their preference is just 100% assuring that person will never join. 

 

There are already so many stupid, beyond reasonable control, things that will drive potential members away from a site without intentionally black-listing a commonly accepted and requested want among the over reaching community. 

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Since member lists have been mentioned, I'll clarify that my doubt isn't "should I use FCs or not" but "should I bother working on a board at all". Creating a board takes time and energy, you must love what you do; then for the same reason I'd rather not work too hard on a project that's doomed from the start.

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Holy tolito is this a hot topic lol. Alright. So I've put my thoughts out there regarding this before so I feel like I'm beating a dead horse.

 

First thing is first, celebrity usage has been around for as long as I've been RPing.... I'm an old lady and been roleplaying for 22 years. There hasn't been a year of my roleplaying that people haven't used one image or another to potray their characters. At my younger days I used Sailor Moon images (as that's what I started roleplaying on in chat rooms) but when I moved into other genres I can't remember a day (save for maybe the few months I was on neopets) that I haven't used a celebrity face to portray a character. It was back in 2001 when I started on Avidgamers (and Proboards five-ever ago here people so I'd like to put the "recentness" of the use of celebrities to rest on that.

 

If you want more proof One of my oldest characters (that has evolved over the many years I've had characters) started out as Cate Blanchett Pre-LotR as a power hungry succubi.

 

With that out of the way I will start the conversation to @featherstone you have to enjoy your community so you make a decision for yourself.


To provide my feedback.

 

I hate writing applications, plain and simple fact. I actually did the math and approximated how many applications I have filled out over the years by determining how many sites I've joined, how many characters I tend to average on any given site and approximately how long it takes to write an app (mind you I have copy and pasted some that fit a world but for the most part it's not a short process and it averages out to about 30-45 minutes per character). That being said I took the amount of years I've been roleplaying and added all of these minutes together using the low ball estimate of 30 minutes per app even though I have been known to spend 6+ hours on some apps to be sure they work (and this is not including re-writes or anything) and I have literally spent 2 years out of 30 years of life writing applications in minutes. That's a lot of minutes I can't get back. I won't say time wasted per say but that's a lot of fucking time and energy that I've spent on something I don't like anymore but that's for another discussion.

 

I prefer visual representations. I honestly don't care who other people choose but I have specific playbys that fit characters that I play and even for their NPCs to be honest. I do have some "celebrity ships" that I like but many of them I've liked since before I saw movies/shows with those characters in them. Do I play my characters similar to the celebrities/roles that they are portrayed in shows/movies. Some of them may have overlap but a lot of my favorite celebrities have been in movies/tv for over 20 years (Lena Headey and Charlize Theron and Cate Blanchett for examples).

 

Would I join a site that forced me to change these PBs... no. Absolutely not. But I also won't join a site that I have a perfect character for if my PB is taken. This holds true that I won't add a character that I thnk I would love to play if the PB is taken... mostly because I've played many of my characters in many different renditions for 5 plus years and their PB and the mannerisms that I've created for the character and the thought process in my head is associated to the way I see that face/person in my head whether or not they actually do those mannerisms (and to me mannerisms are important).

 

Would I join a site with no PBs? If I was damn well set on it sure but I'll be real... I doubt it would hold my interest and the primary reason is because regardless of how a character is played I like to be able to visualize mannerisms as they help me play out a scene in my head. Some people use mannerisms, many don't and so at least seeing a face (and we'll use Karl Urban for example since I'm huge on the "Karl Urban Frowning" thing being super hot, if someone has Karl Urban as their face, no matter the character if they say that their character frowned I see this:

image.png

 

Should you start a site? Totally up to you love. If you want to do it I recommend a non-forum based platform. Nova may be more up your alley as it has less of a focus on the character  and more of a focus on the story. @Death Kitten could explain more.

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Not sure what Nova is, please tell me about it!

 

TBH I don't mind focus on character, just... not on fancasting?

 

@Morrigan when you talk about mannerism, do you mean the actor's? Because even when I used celebs on other boards, I only used their face, not their attitude or so. TBH I didn't even know those, and I wouldn't like if someone assumed my char is in a way I never intended, possibly very different from what I'm trying to describe. Saying "char looks like x" wouldn't be that bad, but pretending they're played by them is really too much for my tastes, because if I'm looking for an appearance I focus on... appearance?, I don't want to care who I'm a fan of or what media I want to consume (say, maybe the movies I like have nobody that looks like my char, and just because someone has a pic that looks right, should I start to follow their otherwise uninspiring career, just to know how my PC is supposed to move?).

 

The other issue only hinted is that if I'm the admin I'm not supercomfortable using pirated images in public, with all the double standards that come with it; not because it's "bad" (it is not, before we start discussing on that), but for reasons similar to why I wouldn't start a 3/3/3 board on non-premium jcink. That's the problem with actually understanding things you'd be much happier not knowing. ^^

Edited by featherstone
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No. Mannerisms are very important to me. Because mannerisms describe a person better than a playby but with the lack of mannerisms the playby works for me.

 

For example something my boyfriend knows I do is that I hum while thinking... specifically I hum while typing posts (so just think how much I hummed with that last post for example). However it's something I don't actively notice. It's actually had to be pointed out to me to even notice that I do it. I've incorporated things like this into my characters. However I've also incorporated things that I feel the character would do often. Like my character Alice has a tendency to run her hands through her hair but she only smiles when she's truly comfortable around someone. However my character Chuck smiles regardless of how comfortable she is because she's an optimistic person.

 

Lack of the mannerisms means I have to fill them in with my head and a PB fixes that problem for me. I legitimately can't image a character without them moving/fidgetting/humming/whatever. Most people think about the personality but never really delve into the true core of someone which is mannerisms and that legit can kill a character for me.

 

I recommend DK's site for more info on Nova. She's supreme on theming it but here is the site itself so you can see:

https://sfintel.space/

Specifically what I think you should look at are the "posts"/logs:

https://sfintel.space/sim/missions

 

Open up those and open up one of the actual "log" files and you'll note there isn't a single character image inside of it.... But the story is all there.

 

@featherstone

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4 minutes ago, featherstone said:

Not sure what Nova is, please tell me about it!

 

Nova is a content management system designed specifically for RP. It's very popular with Star Trek RPs. I like it because it presents the stories much more like a narrative, as opposed to the forums where everyone's replies are split apart by the forum posting formatting. It also provides character bio management and all sorts of nooks and crannies to put info about your game.

 

If you want to see it in action, you can click the banner in my sig and nose around on my game. I can PM you the url to the creator's site if you want, just let me know.

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@Morrigan okay. I agree mannerism is important. Typically I'd describe in my Appearance section for that reason (and in posts as well, but that doesn't always work, especially as I write in limited PoV). I'd just be displeased if someone ignored my description because a celeb of whom I know only the face has a rather different demeanor.

 

@Death Kitten thanks, and taking a look! Just asking, does it have any appeal out of the sci-fi genre? And... not sure if I'm understanding correctly, is it possible to set it so that you can tell who wrote which part? Because that's actually something I like about forum RP. Congrats for your site, anyway!

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23 minutes ago, featherstone said:

 

@Death Kitten thanks, and taking a look! Just asking, does it have any appeal out of the sci-fi genre? And... not sure if I'm understanding correctly, is it possible to set it so that you can tell who wrote which part? Because that's actually something I like about forum RP. Congrats for your site, anyway!

No, the writing is done together. If you prefer to know exactly who wrote what, Nova isn't so great for that. I prefer it specifically because I want it to come out more like a story as opposed to a writing game, which is what forums feel like to me. We can edit and blend together what we write, so that if overlap in character actions or something like that makes sense, we can do it. We can also go back and edit the logs before release in case something comes up where we realize that maybe we made a mistep or there was a miscommunication.

 

It does also take a bit more trust than a forum, since everyone's writing all together in one field, so if you have people who are less than ideal, they can edit other peoples' writing. But people who do that have been few and far between in my experience, because the community doesn't put up with it.

 

As for the appeal outside the scifi community? It's kinda a mixed bag. In its current form, it does best with settings that have a rank/hierarchy structure, though in the next major release the developer intends to address that by making rank optional.

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21 minutes ago, featherstone said:

I'd just be displeased if someone ignored my description because a celeb of whom I know only the face has a rather different

 

Oh you're adorable..... I read everything from my PoV. No matter what celeb, no matter what description.... no matter what... My version circumvents yours. However. If you allow celeb interpretations I will likely use them. The thing is you can't say "he frowned crookedly" and have Karl Urban as the playby because he doesn't actually frown crookedly.

 

I'll be honest, when I read books, I replace them with celebs for myself.

 

Drizzt Do'Urden would go Liam Hemsworth.... Super slender. Super sleek. Give him purple skin and I'm sure he could pull it off.

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3 hours ago, Morrigan said:

I prefer visual representations. I honestly don't care who other people choose but I have specific playbys that fit characters that I play and even for their NPCs to be honest. I do have some "celebrity ships" that I like but many of them I've liked since before I saw movies/shows with those characters in them. Do I play my characters similar to the celebrities/roles that they are portrayed in shows/movies. Some of them may have overlap but a lot of my favorite celebrities have been in movies/tv for over 20 years .

 

Would I join a site that forced me to change these PBs... no. Absolutely not.

 

Would I join a site with no PBs? If I was damn well set on it sure but I'll be real... I doubt it would hold my interest and the primary reason is because regardless of how a character is played I like to be able to visualize mannerisms as they help me play out a scene in my head.

 

I agree with this part. I see RPGs different than books for their multi-media approach. Instead of a footnote, I link to the wikipedia for the explanation of the historical tidbit I was talking about. I link to the youtube of the song my character is singing, so that people can hear it too. And I like graphics and photocollages to illustrate my story. I am glad that playbys exist.

 

 if you liked the concept, would you join a board that uses no celebs? Do you think that more in general the RP world has some space for such things, or is almost entirely dependant on the celebrity world?

 

I think there is a public for everything, including for no celebs using. Unlike others, I am OK with sticking with only one photo for my character... but I have another problem: my setting is historical, and I would prefer having that feel on the board. So unless we are allowed to use reenactors (which is mostly forbidden), I think we are safer with celebrities. So, it is very little chance I would join, and then I would need help with finding an appropriate playby.

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@Morrigan I guess we must agree to disagree here. What you find appealing and inherent to characterization, is something I'd find indeed very limiting - having to choose not only a look, but a look combined with a demeanor. Nothing against others choosing faces like that, but I'd feel limited to very few options and very limited typecasting - at risk of having my char misunderstood or my entire RP being considered invalid, just because what I describe is not something that actor would do. I'm not an expert of the showbiz (at risk of entirely losing your respect, I had to google Karl Urban), so getting appropriate info on how everyone acts (or stick to very few familiar options) sounds more like a chore. To each is own, indeed one might hate writing descriptions.

 

@Death Kitten thanks, but then's not probably what I'm looking for. Also I am not sure than using a less familiar media, for a genre that's not typical of that media, would give me much more chances than any other unpopular rule. 

 

In the end, I think I'll put my project on a halt until I see if there's any appropriate medium or community, or if I get more in the mood of compromises which I am not now (& find better loopholes because situations like this one: https://www.contentfac.com/copyright-infringement-penalties-are-scary/ bug me a bit more than just having rules I don't like).

 

Thanks for all the feedback.

Edited by featherstone
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16 minutes ago, featherstone said:

What you find appealing and inherent to characterization, is something I'd find indeed very limiting - having to choose not only a look, but a look combined with a demeanor.

I think you are misinterpreting me. Since people don't use a demeanor/mannerisms I need a face to make them up. If people actually used these things more... I would find less use for needing a characterization for them.

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@Morrigan Ok, I got it wrong. Since I read I I couldn't describe one's expressions in a way that didn't match. But maybe I just misunderstood crookedly and it's something more objective than a mannerism.

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