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@Morrigan I can see that this upsets you, so I'm going to leave it at agree to disagree because I still believe that the origin of rp samples are not about elitists being jerks.

 

@Mousie We are all always judging everyone else. Prior to joining the probaords/invisionfree forum based community, I had not encountered rp samples being used to judge an individual on whether or not they can join a community. Mostly certainly meant for judging whether or not the other person is someone you want to play with for sure.

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2 minutes ago, Bass said:

 

@Mousie We are all always judging everyone else. Prior to joining the probaords/invisionfree forum based community, I had not encountered rp samples being used to judge an individual on whether or not they can join a community. Mostly certainly meant for judging whether or not the other person is someone you want to play with for sure.

 

Which I think is why I balk at them. On the forum side of the community, they have been heavily used as a method of determining whether an applicant is suited to the community. Which isn't necessarily elitist, but the execution of it on some communities was definitely that way. 

 

For boards that attract a lot of green new-to-forum-RP members, I can see the value of it as being able to get an idea of what the applicant does/doesn't know. Some boards may use it as a base from which to help the member develop their skills, depending on what support the community has in that regard.

 

Personally, I feel I get more than enough out of the application text. An RP sample seems superfluous to that. After the member has made their first IC post, then there's going to be material for other members to look on/assess them as a thread partner anyway, and material far more suited to that purpose than a random favourite post. 

 

I never did understand the point of a random post as an RP sample, either. But I think it's pretty clear by now that I generally don't see the point of RP samples at all. XD

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10 minutes ago, Mousie said:

If the point of the RP sample isn't to judge a person's writing... can I ask what the point is at all?

 

Precisely. Why are we judging anyone's writing? I only know about 3-5 people that have a masters in anything to do with a writing degree throughout my roleplaying circle (and I'm pretty sure that includes the Initiative. @Zahhy love please correct me if I'm wrong). We are literally judging people based on an obscure reference of what we believe is good writing. It is (and for funsies because this is the worst word in the English dictionary) LITERALLY the worst way to judge a person's writing.

 

We do it because it's our way to set ourselves as "better" than people. That is the point of a roleplay sample (and used to be exclusively what it was for). The real measure of our worth should never be what we type but how we communicate and none of us really explain that.

 

For example... @Dragon and I post somewhere upwards of 3K posts per month together. I can't number the amount of posts I've fucked something up or another. On the reverse same for her. I understand the post so I don't fucking care.

 

Adding in your most recent post.. if an application doesn't detract you then the RP sample shouldn't mean anything. It's just another form of control that we as roleplayers put on our members to make things more difficult to do what we love... roleplay.

 

 

@Bass Legit, very few things upset me. This doesn't upset me. I do wholly disagree with you because I've been roleplaying for so long I evolved from AOL chat rooms that literally were rampant with predators from the time I was 7 or 8. I grew up roleplaying and doing things I shouldn't have. I mean I remember my first "cyber" encounter when I was 10 (which doesn't really explain why I'm such a fucking prude).

As an addition, to this, so that you fully understand me. I'm very passionate about everything and that's why it seems like I'm upset.

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I can take or leave RP samples to be honest...

 

Do you use RP samples? What for? I'm gonna be using them on the site I'm currently working on ONLY for canon characters, and it's not in any way to judge writing, I'm using them more to get a feel of how well someone can write the character. There's no word counts on my canon RP samples, you just need to write something that shows that you can get in the character's head! I'm also just a laid back person in general...I'd just like to grab people to play canons who really gets the canon they're playing. I don't even care if you pull a post for that character from somewhere else.

 

Do you like or dislike joining sites that have RP samples on their app? I honestly don't mind joining sites that require them but ONLY if it's just for the first character, I don't want to have to make one for every new OC, that just gets tedious.

 

What requirements do you put on RP samples? Nada, if you can capture the essence of a character in a sentence or two then by all means, write a sentence or two! I'm not looking at them to judge your writing, I'm not judging at all, more getting a feel for characterization!

 

What requirements make you roll your eyes? Word counts and expecting them for every app, that's it really, I'm laid back to a fault...

 

On a site where the characters are animals (cats, wolves, horses, ect), should samples be required to be of that animal, or are human samples okay? On a human RP, would you accept a wolf rp sample? Sure why not? If the RP sample is just for the purpose of judging your writing then it shouldn't matter what the sample is about, but I'm also in the boat that feels like judging people by RP samples to gauge whether they're "worthy" to RP on your forum is a little silly. People need to relax.

 

I'm a take it or leave it kind of person, RP samples aren't the end of the world for me, nor do I get especially worked up or annoyed by them, sure there's certain aspects of them that can chafe me a bit but I'm usually good at adapting! Laid back, like I said LMAO.

 

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Do you use RP samples? What for?

  • Our character bios are rather involved and detailed so we do not require a writing sample. We do ask for a decent character introduction post as a new person's first post. These are not used to judge the new player since their character's bio tells us what we need to know on that. They merely let us see if they read and grasped our lore so that we can iron out any issues at the outset.

Do you like or dislike joining sites that have RP samples on their app?

  • I really don't mind either way. I don't see the point unless they require the sample to be written as the character you are joining the site to play.

What requirements do you put on RP samples?

  • Our character introduction posts need to follow general site rules.

What requirements make you roll your eyes?

  • Probably being asked to write an extensive character history in a bio and then still write a long sample as well.

On a site where the characters are animals (cats, wolves, horses, ect), should samples be required to be of that animal, or are human samples okay? On a human RP, would you accept a wolf rp sample?

  • Clueless on this one. I would think that I'd want to see the character portrayed in its entirety and specific to that RPG.
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Do you like or dislike joining sites that have RP samples on their app? I dislike joining sites that have an app, period. I really enjoy the site culture of believing people know how to do their thing and requiring a detailed character overview to approve or deny has long started to feel a bit too much.

 

That said, there I things I really enjoy writing - like freeform apps, and that kind of RP samples that work as freeform apps - for example, I've been in sites which required that your first post described your character getting to a certain location, or your character interacting with an important NPC, or that it was an open thread with a determined context. I actually think these can be really fun as a way to get in your character's head, but I don't really see how they need to be attached to an app instead of being just a part of the roleplay.

 

What requirements make you roll your eyes? Having to write a new sample for a particular site, and it serving no other purpose whatsoever than sitting on my application for people to look at.

 

On a site where the characters are animals (cats, wolves, horses, ect), should samples be required to be of that animal, or are human samples okay? On a human RP, would you accept a wolf rp sample? I guess this really depends on what you're looking for with samples. If you want to see how a person writes, then I guess it's the same for whatever species, if you want to get a better grasp of the character by seeing inside their head, then you really need a sample of that character in particular.

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I don't mind samples but it doesn't make much sense to me to require a sample for an original character if you have a very detailed app process.

I think samples should be limited to canon characters in order to see that the player can write them accurately. It's not really a judgement on the technical skill of the writer, but if you're on a canon accurate Marvel board you don't want someone writing Wolverine as a calm pacifist who gets sick at the sight of blood.

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Rp samples aren't judged on my site but they are there for two major reasons.

1. Given the fact that my site is a what if site, we just want to get a feel in sample formate of what you are thinking for the character. A bio can tell us so much, an rp sample can fill in some gaps. 

2. People have a tendency to drop off the sites if they don't get a post on the board. We allow the rp sample to be the first post. It encourages people to stay on the board and have fun. This also allows the feeling of contributing which can lead to more activity from a member.

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8 hours ago, Mousie said:

If the point of the RP sample isn't to judge a person's writing... can I ask what the point is at all?

 

I think it is always for judging -- but I think that "to judge" is being taken with a negative connotation without reason. I used to ask for RP samples in the 1x1 community because the truth is that not all writing styles get along -- I'd be equally likely after reading that sample to be like: "HECKSYES. This person is aweeeeesome and this RP is going to be STELLAR" as I was to be like: "Oh. nope. They're too flowery for me." It wasn't about judging how good someone was at writing, it was about how compatible we were in the long run. 

 

okay now the OP:

Do you use RP samples? What for?

We use RP samples on Ark. They are to make sure that the person understands how a roleplay post is formatted and has a grasp of English/grammar well enough to write an short-average length post for the board. (We are no word count, but it is rare that a player writes less than 200 words of their own accord. I dunno! That's just how they roll~)

 

Do you like or dislike joining sites that have RP samples on their app?

I actually prefer it. RP samples are when I go: "Oh holy god. Why am I trying to app ____ it took me 200 years to write this RP sample..." or "ah yes. perfect. I wrote this sample in 10 minutes. This is probably an ideal character for me."

(I'm more likely to impulse app characters without RP samples for this reason; because I LOVE writing apps.)

 

What requirements do you put on RP samples?

Ours is -- lemme go grab it. "250+ words. Does not have to be in character."

This is so that if you are looking at a character you think might be cool to play against you can just pop over to the sample and check what the writing style is like without having to look elsewhere. (But you can also just nab a writing sample from wherever you'd like; or write the first post in an open thread you're planning to post.)

 

What requirements make you roll your eyes?

Uhm... I guess if the sample had to be over 500 words I'd probably get growly. (Only because I don't like having to meet high word counts.)

There was one once that you had to have a secret word embedded into it. That seemed silly to me.

 

On a site where the characters are animals (cats, wolves, horses, ect), should samples be required to be of that animal, or are human samples okay? On a human RP, would you accept a wolf rp sample?

I think it depends on what you're looking for as an administrator and what you want the purpose of the sample to be. For instance, if it's just a writing sample (can this person put logical, flowing paragraphs together), then it doesn't matter if it's in or out of the character/species in question. 

If, however, you're using it to make sure that when you say "realistic canine RP" you don't have a dog buying groceries at the store -- you're checking for content in addition to skill set, then I'd say it'd be wise to make them write the character/species in question. (You don't want a horse licking its paws in the middle of a thread after all. Or wagging its tail. or tracking something by sniffing the ground. *hard stare at Disney*)

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Do you use RP samples? What for?

- Not anymore. When I did (back in the early 2000s), it was my attempt to weed out people whose writing style would drive me nuts. Now I don't use them, and will never again.

 

Do you like or dislike joining sites that have RP samples on their app?

- Dislike. I already get frowny around Applications.

 

What requirements do you put on RP samples?

- When I had them, I required simple things like; Use of punctuation, Proper formatting of Dialogue, Consistent Tense, Consistent Point of View etc. Really basic craft nonsense that most people don't actually follow anyway. Most of the applications I accepted, then edited and sent them back. I'll tell you what - you don't start out on good footing with telling your prospective members how to play a game.

 

What requirements make you roll your eyes?

- All of them. 

 

On a site where the characters are animals (cats, wolves, horses, ect), should samples be required to be of that animal, or are human samples okay? On a human RP, would you accept a wolf rp sample?

- I would only accept samples of the type of game I was running at the time. If I'm looking for human gamers, seeing human interaction is important.

 

Additional Points
Despite my own personal dislike of extensive applications and requiring writings samples, I always want to look at these things objectively. It is important to point out that some sort of Application Process is relevant to certain types of games. Writing Applications might be important say if you're running an Avengers game and you want to ensure your Captain America can spell. (though it could be fun if he didn't. xD). For other games that are not looking for character canons, it feels pretentious and unnecessary to me and I'm the idiot with the advanced writing degree (You were right @Morrigan ;))

 

But why have a writing sample at application? If your application and profile requirements are not a good enough indicator of the type of player/ character that is applying to join your site, you need to update those to give you the information you want. Weed out people naturally. If you want to weed out people for STYLE (because seriously this is a game, all writing online can be considered style. Like any craft, you can judge a person on the base of throwing a clay pot, but if they want to make it interesting and mess up the rules a bit to create art, who are you to judge them?), then go for it, but I'm not certain they are a good indicator of how well a person is going to play with others.

 

In my experience, writing samples are a waste of someone's time (either the joiner for having to write it or the admin for having to read it, edit and reply). And, whose to say they haven't plagiarized their sample anyhow?Traditionally, anyone that doesn't meet the site standard (by standard I mean the average writing that can be seen on the site) won't stay long anyway. People try to emulate what they see, and if they don't they're likely naturally shunned or leave anyhow, so why bother insulting them at the point when they are most interested in the site and trying to learn? 

 

If there is no value in something DON'T DO IT. Fun i.e. marginal value is still value, but as I've mentioned before, unless it is completely necessary, I say put writing samples and prompts into the Community section of your site where you can all give one another advice. Writing prompts can be fun, I just don't make them a requirement! 

 

As a professional writer and a community manager, my advice will always be to do everything you can to make signup on your site as seamless and easy for your new player and yourself as possible. Whatever you can automate or cut, DO. (And to me, Samples are frivolous and unneeded so it would be my advice to cut them).

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Do you use RP samples? What for?

On our sites, we do require a writing sample. We also do not require people to spend a lot of time on their bios, though. If you play a canon fandom character, you can link to their wikipedia page. Why rewrite something already written? For original characters, we encourage a "just the facts" approach to the application.

 

Do you like or dislike joining sites that have RPsamples on their app?

I do not begrudge any site that requires a writing sample. 

 

What requirements do you put on RP samples?

What requirements make you roll your eyes?

The requirements are that it has to be our word count requirement: 250 words. We have this on our boards because we had a lot of players bring up concerns about there being an imbalance between what they would write and what their partners were writing. We also really like to see the post in character. BUT this is for new players only. After the third character across all our boards (we run a community of several boards) we feel like we know you enough to know you can write what you need.

 

On a site where the characters are animals (cats, wolves, horses, ect), should samples be required to be of that animal, or are human samples okay? On a human RP, would you accept a wolf rp sample?

No, because of that previously mentioned request that you write for the character you are apping for.

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Do you use RP samples? What for?

Yep, both of my sites use them. Players do not have to do them for every character, nor even just the first one, it's if they want something fancy. They're called auditions.
On one, it's generally only required if they want a very high rank for the given character. That site's factions are run by the players that play the character(s) that run(s) it. As such, I want to be sure they can handle running a faction, so essentially they write a sample that shows what the character would be like as a faction leader. Similar gig on the other, though there are bonus perks they can audition for re: the site's system, ergo extra skill points or more Pokemon than their starting group is allotted at start. Later the first one will have the ability to audition for extra skill points, but currently players can't (because the site's still in readjustment period after the system overhaul).

 

Back when first one was still canon, we did require samples for canons, to make sure they were a good fit. I wasn't terribly finicky with them, but the characters in that particular fandom were. Are. Um. Something else. And fans of it like to go over the top on... everything, so I liked to make sure I wasn't inviting a consistent migraine right out the gate (I had plenty of other migraines).

 

Do you like or dislike joining sites that have RP samples on their app?

This depends entirely on what it's for. If it's there just... because it seemed like a cute idea, I'm probably side-eyeing hardcore, but I'll still do it. If the staff are literally going to rip apart the sample and analyse my Engrish, I'm. Look, editors do that, not strangers on the internet I couldn't give a flying fuck less about, k, k. A role-play isn't a publishing or newspaper company, and fuck that nooooise, nopenopenopenope bye.

There was a site once I joined that required a sample before they even gave you the really stupid long application, and my naive young self joined it. R E G R E T.

 

What requirements do you put on RP samples?

Just that it is written from the viewpoint of the character that is being applied for. So if you want an extra Charmander for Billy, Tracy can't be the focus of Billy's audition for a Charmander. Beyond that, players can get as creative as they like, though if I catch a likelihood of the player attempting to control other characters that are not their own without permission, I may warn them that's against the rules and to not do that in IC threads.

 

What requirements make you roll your eyes?

Woooooord cooooounts. I hate them. They set off my anxiety. Even if I can hit it, that isn't the point. What if I can't that day? What if there's nothing else to write? What if I hit a wall? WHAT IF A METEOR FALLS THROUGH THE ATMOSPHERE AND CRASHES INTO MY HOUSE? WHAT IF THE SKY FALLS? WHAT IF MY TONGUE TURNS BLUE???

Okay, jokes aside, that's essentially it. Well, particularly extraneous, pointless, nitpicky, ridonkulus stipulations may make me nope, too, like uh. You have to write the sample on this day at this time in this location at this event with these NPCs and your character has to be wearing this, kinda thing, idk. Let my creativity breeeeathe.

 

On a site where the characters are animals (cats, wolves, horses, ect), should samples be required to be of that animal, or are human samples okay? On a human RP, would you accept a wolf rp sample?

First one, I wouldn't really consider human samples to be proper ones? Animal RP doesn't quite work the same way as human, from what I can tell? Idk, I'm really not terribly familiar with animal RP. In any case, on the latter, both my sites require them to be the character they're for as if they had what they're asking for, so it seems kind of strange to accept a wolf audition for a human character. ... in all fairness, I might accept a human one for a Pokemon character, if the given Pokemon was a gijinka, or a human sample for a Pokemorph (because they were a human once). -shruggle- WHYAREYOUMAKINGMETHINK I'm joking.

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Do you use RP samples? What for?

 

We do! As I started rping on twitter, I find sparse characters with no background very confusing and unappealing to write with. If all I see is an image of the character, plus a few sentences that really tell me next to nothing about the character, then I'm not inspired to interact with them. It's worse, when they only ever post photos, one liners and things like good morning, good night, etc, but you don't see any actual rp or solo writing on there. I have nothing to go on and neither do other people who might find their character interesting enough to want to write with if there is more writing and not everyone makes twit longer posts, or tumblr blogs for the characters, so it's really just that I like to see some information about the character and how the person writes. As I didn't start off on forums, I don't have the experience to decide if samples, and/or apps are annoying. (I personally enjoy writing them as it helps me get into my character's head and gets ideas down for my characters which I might like to rp, so really look at them as a way to come up with storylines for others to join.)

 

Do you like or dislike joining sites that have RP samples on their app?

 

I have no preference either way, but I do like apps because they give me a record of my characters and a starting point to come up with ideas for storylines involving the character.

 

What requirements do you put on RP samples?

 

It only needs to be a piece of fiction writing done by you. It can be a solo for the character you are applying for, or something else entirely. You can have written it specifically for the app, or something you've done elsewhere. As long as it's written by the person making the app, and in third person, I don't really care. We also only require it for the first character they play.

 

(In regards to canon characters and apps, I don't think linking the wiki page is enough - I like to see the bio written in a person's own words because you aren't writing the canon version of the character, you're writing your own interpretation of the character - I want people to make the character 'their own' as it were and you can't do that if you don't put it in your own words.)

 

What requirements make you roll your eyes?

 

I have seen groups/sites where you need to audition, or sites that require a period of 'training' before they let you loose on the site. I find these very pretentious and unnecessary and have been put off participating in a site in which I'd have been keen on otherwise. They also had heavy requirements regarding their apps, activity requirements and posting formats which I found heavy handed by themselves. Although I do enjoy being descriptive when I write, I'd also think that long samples, (over 200 words) espeaically if I had to write it specifically for that app, and not something I'd pre-written.

 

On a site where the characters are animals (cats, wolves, horses, etc), should samples be required to be of that animal, or are human samples okay? On a human RP, would you accept a wolf rp sample?

 

Having written animals I will say this - it is very difficult to write animals accurately, espeaically if the animal is non-talking. (I sometimes think that one of the reasons why we have talking animals in fiction is so that the reader can understand the creature better, otherwise it would all be actions and it's not easy to write consistently without dialogue.  You have to ensure that you get their behaviour right. As a zoologist, I find it irksome when people don't get the details right, but that's just my bias. If you're writing an anthro or furry, then you can get away with some human characteristics, but there would still have to be something of the creature in your writing, so if it is for an animal rp or an anthro/furry, or even an alien or robot, then I'd expect the sample to be of that character, or something similar to it. For a human rp then I don't think it matters that much since writing things from a human perspective is a lot easier because we have the experience of it.

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13 hours ago, Taako said:

I'm gonna be using them on the site I'm currently working on ONLY for canon characters, and it's not in any way to judge writing, I'm using them more to get a feel of how well someone can write the character

 

Hey dude, I hope you don't mind me quoting you here. I just wanted to get a better understanding of why you use rp samples. 

 

It sounds like (to me) though you're baulking at saying you judge, you still are. Someone at the beginning of their writing hobby presumably hasn't developed their writing ability to capture a character's essence as well as someone who has been RPing for years. Presumably! 

 

So I guess what I'm asking is: what do you get from a writing sample that you don't get from a bio? (Anyone who supports writing samples for canons could answer!) The way I see it, the only unique thing a writing sample provides is a snapshot on someone's writing. A bio, for me, is enough for me to see if someone actually knows the canon they're writing. 

 

I appreciate the insight! 

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15 minutes ago, Kit the Human said:

So I guess what I'm asking is: what do you get from a writing sample that you don't get from a bio? (Anyone who supports writing samples for canons could answer!) The way I see it, the only unique thing a writing sample provides is a snapshot on someone's writing. A bio, for me, is enough for me to see if someone actually knows the canon they're writing. 

 

I have witnessed players use verbatim wiki information to write their bios, and then play a character directly contrast to their Alignment or stated personality. If you require people to write their own bios from scratch for canons, then sure you can probably get an inkling of how well they know their perception of the character: However, there is a HUGE opening for the person to just rehash somebody else's wikia entry without having to do any actual thought of their own. I think that's why a lot of people still like samples for canons. 

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