Membership Board Layout?

[StormWolfe 557]

As I've mentioned in a couple of other discussions, I am migrating one of my RPGs to forums. I have been away from forum RP for many years and much of the common terminology is lost on me, so please forgive any gaffs on my part. When my site is completely finished, I will be adding it for a site review. Right now, we still have lots to move from the old Nova site and some cosmetic issues to fix.

 

I would like feedback from both points of view: RPer looking over a site for the first time  and Admin regarding what they consider must-haves.

 

Upfront, I am a minimalist when it comes to sites. I like a graphically alluring site but there is a point where I feel that less = more. IMHO, a site should be focused on storytelling and character development. Lore (site wikis) need to be easy to find and contain enough information to make creating a character and a plot easy. Since I also love reading everyone else's stories, I also want IC plots easy to find and follow.

1. As an Admin and a Player, what are the bare minimums you require or look for in a site?
2. Site Layout: What do you look for first? Do you prefer the IC forums to be the ones you see at the top?

Thanks! Looking forward to the feedback!

 

PS: I searched for similar topics but had no luck. If anyone knows of one, point me in its direction!

[Icewolf 258]

I tend to go for a two column layout, with a header and footer, though you could go for a three column layout if you wanted to.

 

On visiting a forum for the first time, I like to be able to find things easily and I find that forums that go away from a simple category followed by the boards in that category to be confusing. There has been a tendency for some people to try to change how a forum looks by having the boards displayed side by side, but when that is done, I usually can't find what I'm looking for. Smaller graphics work better than large ones if you want to use them for your boards. I think it's a good idea to make sure that images don't cover the screen too much so that people don't have to scroll down. (I don't like the no of threads, posts and last post boxes to be too large either. I think they should be as small as you can get them.)

 

You can use the sidebars to post links to important posts on your site, such as the rules, site plot, lore, etc, or you could do these across the top in the header. It depends on how many you have - if it's a lot, then the sidebar is better.

 

When it comes to font sizes, I prefer 12pt - 14pt for the main text with a font like arial, verdana, helvetica, or tahoma. Fonts smaller than that I find are difficult to read and I avoid using them unless I need to use them to fit a small area on the layout and larger fonts would make something go on to two lines instead of one, or it would disappear from the screen, or create scrolling boxes. 

 

Depending on the forum software you're using, there are plugins you can use so that recent posts can be displayed in the sidebar which will help make threads easier to find. (I don't know what software you intend to use, though.)

 

I personally don't go for hovers, animations and scrolling marquees, because they have the habit of hiding information and visitors need to know that the hovers are there to get it otherwise they'll miss it.

[Rune 1,099]

I am so picky it is unreal.

 

Information goes at the top. This is how you get started. I want the plot, species, rules, etc to be the first board I see.

Joining Stuff (Apps, claims, directories, whatever) should be secondary. Wanteds/shippers/other OOC stuff can go here, too.

Forums! The IC stuff!

Advertising goes at the bottom. ADVERTISING ALWAYS GOES AT THE BOTTOM. OOC stuff like games, chatter, whatever can also go here.

 

[Uaithne 543]

I agree with @Rune as far as layout of what goes where.  The stuff you need to read first should be at the top (rules, board information, etc.).  The stuff that you need to read last should be at the bottom (advertisements, possibly archives).

 

Also, if you're going to have a toggle cbox, keep it closed by default.  Although I have a wide computer, I find that oftentimes much of the forum is blocked off by the stupid cbox.  So either the person who installed it had an even wider computer, or they really just don't care about being able to read the forum.

 

This is a personal note, but I think it should be said: I have trouble reading fat forums.  So basically forums in which the individual forums displayed on the main page are large.  I attached an image to this post to illustrate what I'm talking about.  (I made it quickly in paint - I didn't want to use someone else's skin as an example 'cause that's kind of mean.)  It's really hard to get a good grasp of the site as a whole when you can only see a couple forums at a time, and then you have to scroll so much to take in the same amount of information.  Some people like it, I guess since it's everywhere, but it seems like inefficient design to me.

[Huskerdust 625]

I hate loads of scrolling at all so I try to condense everything as much as possible. 

 

Also, for layout, I tend to go with 

 

Info

IC forums

Plot stuff

OOC stuff

 

IC and plot stuff can be interchanged and it doesn't bother me but in general, info comes first, OOC stuff comes last (and that includes advertising!) 

 

I just want to get to the RP stuff as quickly as possible which is why I skew more towards IC forums before plot stuff. But I get why people do it the other way around: people read the information, make a character, plot, and then post. So yeah. Makes sense.

Edited January 16, 2018 by Zozma

[Morrigan 1,826]

This is going to vary from player to player. What works well for you may not work well for others. What works well for me may not work well for you etc. The below are just things to keep in mind:

 

One thing to consider is that you have a fully responsive design as you use IPS, so worrying about what will and won't fit isn't the issue here.

 

I definitely don't recommend a lot of forums. Empty forums make for inactive looking site and unused forums make for annoying items.

 

I don't like a lot of subforums (personally). If you have to go deeper than 1 subforum than you are going too deep. (By this I mean Category > Forum > Subforum, if you go Category > Forum > Subforum > Subforum you have gone too far personally).

 

Make sure commonly accessed items are in your menu, Rules, application, Wanted ads, Character bios etc.

[Raven 18]

I hate it when pages are only accessible by a navigation bar, or when forums are lined up side by side with each other. I hate being sent to a page that isn't a standard forum home page when I first access the site. I just want to be able to click on the "rules", "plot", and "apply" forums, read every thread within them, and know everything I need to join. 

[VirusZero 176]

I'm not fond of grid layouts (the initiative's default column layout). I find that, in general, they look messier (since if there is anything even slightly off it sticks out way more. So if one block happens to be a bit wider/taller... you'll see it so much worse.) Also, when I have seen this style people have tended to remove the numbers from that section. So you can't see how many topics/posts there are in it. (Which, to me, is an important metric to see how active a site is.)

 

For a few quick design things...

- Font should never be under size 10 for any reason. I don't care if you think it looks nice having a size 6 font... people will not join if they can't read the text. 

- Avoid reducing the line spacing (to cram words together) as it makes things harder to read.

- Avoid reducing line height (same reason as line spacing).

- Use fancier, serif (the ones with the curls and accents), fonts sparingly and with enough size to make them easily legible. 

- Ensure background and text have enough contrast to be easily read. (A black background with dark grey text is hard to read... )

- Don't be afraid to use some brighter colours for accents, but don't go full neon pink for everything as it can be very hard to read.  

- Just remember that while a site can be gorgeously designed that at the end of the day the content is what will keep people returning. So don't sacrifice usability for beauty. Which leads me to my next thing...

 

For headers (the logo and anything that is at the top of every page), avoid massive page filling headers. (Anything over 300px at tallest.)  This is because the more scrolling a person has to do to get to the actual content/forums, the less chance they're going to stick around. (Sure that huge header looks nice the first time you visit... but the 10th? 50th? 100th? After a point it just becomes a nuisance to have to scroll through.)

And stay away from hover... I know it seems like it might be a good idea to use hover to stick stuff in the header but it's not. Many people now use their mobile devices to brows sites and hover typically does not work with mobile devices. (So they aren't going to be able to see/use that stuff.) 

 

If the side has a sidebar (if unsure what I mean by sidebar, that piece on the initiative's index that houses the discord channel, donation goals, active topics, etc...) it should not overlap the forum at all on a 1366x768 display. (I know that seems small but most people still do not have 1920x1080 displays yet... And many people don't know how to make dynamic themes that adjust to user screen size. Fun fact, the most popular screen size in the world is 320x640... a mobile screen size. Which shows how popular/important mobile is. It is important to have a theme for that size if your software doesn't auto generate one. Some free forum hosts like Jcink have a built in mobile mode, even if some malign it, it is at least present. For self-hosters, or those without the built in mobile option, you may have to build a theme with mobile in mind.)

 

If you do opt to use a sidebar, common things to include in it are:

- quick links to important things like rules, FAQ, etc...

- a chatbox (or titan embed box) for social interaction.

- who the staff are / links to their profiles

- Credits

 

So just to keep some terms clear...

Spoiler

Category is the main heading, it houses the forums.

Forum is where topics are housed.

Sub-forum is another section where topics are housed but it's a smaller section, oft related to a main forum, but not so important it needs to be displayed on the index or with the other forums. 

 

For example, on the initiative:

Site Information is the category, 

Announcements is a forum within the category, and;

New Resources is a sub-forum within the Announcements forum.

 

Now when it comes to the categories on a forum, my standard is this:

0 -  Staff forums (hidden from view of all but staff)

I usually have a forum for staff information (where I store topics that lay out things like duties of each role, the when to bump ad schedule, new ideas, links to any test forums, etc...). I have another, usually a sub-forum, for essentially an evidence locker so staff can have a place to record all warns and proof thereof. (If staff are issuing warnings they need to log them so everyone knows what's going on. That way we're all on the same page. I don't want to be in a situation where I warn someone for something another already warned them for.)

 

Some people like to put their staff sections at the very bottom of the page, below everything else. This one is entirely up to you. I just like putting it at top because that's where I'm used to having it.

 

1 -  Rules

One forum for: the rules, getting started guides, FAQs, etc... (basically anything that members might need to know but shouldn't be able to edit themselves). Another forum for site news, announcements, updates. Another for help/support/questions (this one can be guest friendly if you want). 

Sometimes if I'm using a wiki I'll have a forum that's a redirect to the wiki. (Othertimes I'll just link the wiki everywhere... in the rules, FAQ, sidebar, toplinks, etc...)

 

2 - Applications

I like to keep the applications really simple here and go with only 2 forums at first... New applications (to be looked at) and Accepted applications. (Possibly a third, staff visible only, forum for rejected/refused applications. So this way if someone keeps posts an application but isn't making the changes you need you can send it to the bin but yet still retain it for later in case they try to rejoin later on.)

 

I don't generally recommend starting off with a massive accepted registry where there's like a sub-forum for each class (so like if on super natural setting, no need for one for vampires, werewolves, ghosts, demons, witches, humans and angels right away when there are none of most of them). This is something that can be added later on. (As the need for it actually arises.)

 

3 - In Character section 1

4 - In Character section 2

For the in character sections there should be no more than 8 forums (with no sub-forums) between both sections. Otherwise it gets way too hard to populate them and keep them populated. Truth is that people stumbling on a site with loads of empty forums will leave because they think the site is dead/dying. They're not even going to give it a chance. Try to keep forums as general as possible. So don't have one for <Fancy store name> if no one's actually using that area a lot. Go with a more generic store section instead this way you can have people using that section for the fancy store and also every other type too.

 

One idea that's always useful is having the 8th forum as a general catch all section. So this way there's a place for everything else that doesn't fit. Then, down the road, if you notice that there's a lot of threads (at least 20) happening around one specific location then you can give it it's own forum to use.

 

Also, if your roleplay features a lot of areas (like New York City, Boston, Los Angeles, Phoenix, Dallas, etc...) try to avoid making all those locations as distance can make it hard for characters to meet up and interact. 

 

5 - All Out of Character stuff.

So this is where I'd put the greeting/ask me anything forum, the Out of Character chat forum, a forum games section. If I were using guest advertising (which I kind of don't recommend due to spam concerns and how it kinda doesn't work) then it'd go here too.

 

There's probably more I'm not thinking of right now, but I think this is more than enough to start with.

[Kit the Human 758]

As an Admin and a Player, what are the bare minimums you require or look for in a site?

- Mobile friendly. Chatbox/sidebar that doesn't sit on top of other forums (sloppy!)

- Legible font - meaning the font is large and with good contrast.

- It doesn't take an age to load.

 

Site Layout: What do you look for first? Do you prefer the IC forums to be the ones you see at the top?

I like having important information (login/register, rules, plot etc) at the top of the board as a nav bar. But the first forum I see? I want it to be IC forums because well, you're catering to users aren't you? The people who have decided to invest in your site? Why make them scroll every time they want to get to the guts of the site, the RP forums?

 

After that, forums roughly in order of importance.

[Sadrienne 242]

So, things that I look for (especially when doing reviews):

• Font size of 12px or up --- super important!
• Good contrast between background and text colours --- also super important!
• Padding in table cells, so that the text doesn't touch (or get too close to) the border
• Consistency in colours and styles --- usually this can be difficult to achieve with images, so CSS is your friend!
• Fast loading. I have horrible internet.
• Link colours different to main text. I hate hunting for links.
• Subforums separated out and easily identifiable from the forum description.
• A bit of a gap between the main forum, and sidebar panels -- so they don't block together weirdly
• Minimal scroll to get to IC forums. Whether this is by having less forums at the top, or just not having insanely huge headers/forum titles.
• Clearly defined information, applications, and OOC areas.
• If using a two-column side-by-side forum layout, no odd forums! I feel so sorry for those lonely forums without a partner.

[Raven 18]

I like boards to be simple. I don't want a bunch of pages that can only be accessed through the navigation bar. I want to be able to click on the Rules, Plot, and Apply forum and have everything I need right there by just clicking on the threads. It makes it simple for me to find everything and I don't have to wonder if I'm going to overlook something that isn't included in the navigation bar because it isn't considered "as important".

[Kit the Human 758]

Lolol @Raven you've posted twice here to talk about how much you hate navigation bars.

 

Can you expand a little? I don't see any meaningful difference between a navigation bar and an important info forum. Well besides that the navigation bar is on the top of every page. Why does not having rules etc in a post throw you for a six? (Genuine curiosity here. I usually put my rules etc on a separate page with a link to it on every page. I like that it stands on it's own that way. But I'd appreciate the enlightenment if it's a barrier to entry.)

[Raven 18]

Whoops, I was clearly out of it the second time, sorry xDDD.

 

I'm fine if there IS a navigation bar, I just don't like having pages that are only accessible from them... because I don't use them. They disorient me and seem less organized and thorough. Navigation bars are the highlight reels, in my mind at least, and I want the full picture, not JUST what the staff have deemed Most Important. It's also often difficult to use navigation bars on mobile sites (which I use often): either they collapse and I just don't look at them, they aren't visible at ALL on the mobile site, or there isn't a mobile site and usually those things involve hovers which are a mAJOR pain in the butt for mobile users.

 

It's just how I browse sites, I suppose. It's why I'm one of the more effective staff members at knowing what's going on around TNI and paying attention to everything. I don't just look at the stuff that needs my attention. I click through the Out of Character boards, and click on EVERY thread that has unread posts (every thread, period, if I'm joining a new site) and read everything that's been posted. If I'm doing this and going through the navigation bars, on most sites I will get overlap, so I don't like going through navigation bars even if I am on the computer. Even though TNI has a navigation bar, 99% of the time I want to access anything, I will go to the front page, I will click on the forum the thing is in, and I will click on the forum post. This allows me to know where to find things, especially if a navigation bar is redone in a skin update, or inevitably, when I'm on mobile and navigation bars are different or inaccessible (they almost always are one or the other).

 

I guess, in the end, it's just because I'm a creature of habit, and most sites I joined for most of my life didn't have navigation bars at all, so I got used to navigating the Old Fashioned Way, so now I just get a bad taste in my mouth using them?

 

@Kit the Human

Edited January 30, 2018 by Raven

[Kit the Human 758]

Haha! But I got to peer into the inner-workings of your mind.... @Raven

 

I use my phone regularly when I RP and I have friends who exclusively RP from them, so trust me, I make sure everything is accessible and legible for phones. A poorly coded site is going to throw up issues for phones regardless, there is nothing inherently inaccessible about a navbar. (Well, there is, phones do not have horizontal real estate so you switch the nav bar into a menu that reveals the navigational links.)

 

So, how do you go with sites that aren't forum based? You would have to use a navigational bar/menu right? Is it just because inaccessibility is the theme for most people's forums that you've thrown your hands up at all nav bars and refuse to use them? I find it odd to avoid them because they've been a part of web designs for a very long time, including forums. User CP, Mod CP, Calendar, etc can not be accessed by forums can they? So things like your rules, your plot, beginner's guide and those of that ilk, that do not require daily checking for responses and are not interactive, have no need to be in a post and could be hanging out with the userCP etc links. When a guest is looking to join your forum those things do need to be front and centre, but beyond that they just need to be readily accessible for reference. In other words, they become another forum to scroll past. (I can see that at TNI your nav bar is ah, really not there for mobiles and is annoying even for a desktop user because of the menus popping up as I move my cursor to switch tabs. I hate hovers though. But anyway, could your coder look at adding those important links to the mobile menu? I've attached a screen cap of what I mean.)

 

I guess the long and short of it is, I definitely feel your woes when it comes to important information becoming inaccessible for mobiles but that's the fault of a poor design and ought not to be an inherent feature of navigational bars. If you were on a site where the bar was actually present and usable for navigation on all devices, are you still going to ignore it? I'd love to know if it's still a genuine barrier for entry or if it's something I could do differently for the reasons I've already stated and feasibly be able to retrain people a tiny bit.

 

Eg.

 

 & 

[Raven 18]

@Kit the Human I've never.. written on a site that isn't forum based, so I don't really have an answer there, to be honest! For sites that aren't role playing sites, this is less of an issue for me, but I don't really use sites like that much, to be honest. As for modcp/usercp ect those aren't things I need to read before joining, they aren't unique to the site, and in most cases I COULD feasibly get away with never accessing them (I have TNI's admin CP bookmarked in my bookmark's bar)

 

While I've been on TNI for three years, TNI was not actually where the distaste stemmed from. I do rather like our desktop navigation bar for accessibility for certain things, though I don't use it often. I've asked before about changing the mobile layout but, my understanding of it is that it's a pre-loaded code that either can't be played with or our coder doesn't have the expertise to do so, I'm not quite sure which but I've not really pressed the issue - because the site is accessible through the forums, and I enjoy it being simple and easy to use on mobile.

 

As for it being present and usable - yes, I will still ignore it. It's probably terrible and counter-intuitive, but even if I'm only accessing a site from desktop, I'll be using the forums only. On mobile sites with menus, unless it's to access account settings (and sometimes even then) I often forget nav bars exist (it took me a shamefully long time to figure out how to use Reddit on mobile considering I'm a grown adult who has been using the internet since he was 10). Granted, I'm not sure how many people actually feel the same way about this that I do! I'm not sure where exactly my distaste stems from, or why it's so intense. Maybe it's a mental thing, or just habit. Maybe it's a compulsion.

 

I think part of the difference is that I started writing on Neopets, and then moved to proboards, so there has always been a bit of separation between the website and the forum. The website is the software it's run on. The forum is the actual content that is part of the role play, including rules and plot - and despite the fact that I know this isn't necessarily the case, that separation is still very prominent in my mind.