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IC Actions = IC Consequences - What if players just don't understand?


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Most games have the rule IC Actions = IC Consequences. We all know this... but do we all, really?

 

What do you do when a player doesn't understand? What if they complain? How do you keep the playground safe and functioning without blowing your whistle and looking like a headmaster with a power complex?

 

Tell me your horror stories! Help me feel better about my own players totally freaking out when there are IC consequences to their IC actions!

 

-_-_-_-_-_-

 

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Once upon a time, two of my players went guns blazing into a hostage situation (superhero genre), and godmodding the (presumably) successful rescue of the hostage.

 

My co-GM godmodded them right back. One character lost half her face to shrapnel, and the hostage was executed in the middle of the floor by the extremist villains.

 

My boyfriend still complains that it wasn't fair that the villain had reactive armor that would explode in an opponent's face, or that there was no way to save the girl.

 

Spoiler alert: It was made fairly clear OOC (but not IC) that the villain group are religious extremists backed by a wealthy corporate executive. Also, I too assumed that the girl would have been rescued, because I didn't think my players would be dumb enough to bunny the actions of an antagonist NPC.

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Glub glub.

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I had a conversation with a fellow player when things changed in a plot where he assumed my absolutely batshit character would go for the obvious out. and they were like "well, we don't have the rule of your character can't die if you don't want" and I was just like "no that's fine, but here's the thing, she wouldn't ever try to kill your character. if his design is to make her live without the person she wants, tit for tat broseph, she'll kill his love too."

 

Chick was not right in the head, like, would have murder suicided right out with said girl to get back at the guy, because it would have inflicted more suffering. Or made sure no one walked out of the building alive.

 

Needless to say, as soon as it was realized I was fine with her dying and she would take other people's characters with her, well, we adjusted said plot. I only have a few characters that are just fucking crazy, but they're always the kind who like to take people with them.

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Sometimes, when the universe of the roleplay depends more on some sort of status quo, or a minimum of realism, it's like it's harder for some people to figure out how the IC actions will bring consequences, or it would feel like at least. It's like having a threat level that is not a daily thing make some feel immune against all risks. Some player comes with misbehaving characters playing it rebellious without any shame or subtlety, going against main groups/factions without any backup, getting enemies of all kind, treating the roleplay universe like this was one of the videogames where you can break and kill anyone without too many consequences.

 

Sure, there is always the risk the character will get killed. Sometimes there are ways to avoid it, sometimes the staff has to message the player and tell them frankly that: "Character X will find and kill your character Y if he does that." The plot can be adapted and convenient coincidences or obstacle can be set up by the staff and other players to spare character Y, but there is only so much that can be done before it turns plain impossible, and ruins the credibility of the setting. A nice warning can help in my opinion, something like "just checking you are ready to go this far" or "I don't want you to feel forced into this, so I wanted to check the options with you, regarding what could happen if we keep on this way".

 

Suggestions can also help, still imo. Give the person options out of the dead end they worked themselves into. Preplaned fail-safes.  

Else, if it fails, it is plain honestly telling them what's up. I guess it's about being diplomat then, when in fear or seeming too controlling. I've learned in some swimming class teacher classes that a good pedagogical way to pass constructive comments or bad news was that they called the Hamburger method. One bun of compliment, one patty of bad news or critic, and a last bun of compliment before going. So it does not feel like complete nitpicking or attempts at godmodding the player: they get mellowed out and prepared with the first bun, and mellowed again with the last one. Apparently, the brain would tend to be more affected by the last things it was shown/told, so a nice touch helps smoothing down what could offense them. So one can go, bun one: "I enjoy playing/reading that thread, and it has become really interesting... (...)" patty can go: "I worry however that character Y might be more and danger than he might think, because he is messing with character X who will not hesitate to kill him on the spot. I hope you realise character X will not miss, and character Y could die or be seriously injured, it means you will lose Y, or he'll have to recover if he's not marked for life". Then bun number two, you can underline a way they still are making the game interesting, and that you would like to keep a character like their around, or anything. 

 

It's not all however. Just because a situation will not kill character Y, it does not mean the player will enjoy what comes out of what they had started themselves. Which means one has to protect them against their lack of forward thinking sometimes, else they'll put themselves in a situation they dislike, and others will dislike, and all the related plots would be affected. That's why I mentioned the status quo and realistic tone to the game universe, and that's where I've seen some issue. Sometimes the rebellious character's player forgets the real world have laws and rules, and policemen. They want to murder people, or commit crimes left and right, and challenge cops full-on, and beat or attack characters without having plans to make sure they will not be seen or snitched on.

They fail to consider they might end up wanted by the law, if not detained and accused, and that, suddenly, character Y can lose many freedoms on the site. You tell them they cannot go to that party or that restaurant else someone would call 911 and give their location, or they realise this or this character do not want to deal with character Y anymore since they acted badly. Their future plots all end up antagonistic, and they might not want only that.

 

In such case, when in the character creation process in ongoing and the character Y seems like an over the top rebel, I check with the player to make sure they are aware the character must have some restraint or sneakiness if they want to avoid the whole banishing or jailing situation. Only time can tell if it works to try to prevent dead ends early however 

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Devil's Tattoo - Clan politics, bikers, urban legends, cougars, wolves, coyotes, badgers and more... 
Plenty of canons available, and OC are more than welcomed as well
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Depends on the person and how many times this has been an issue or how severe an issue it is. I mean if it's a first time and small thing then I might just ignore it. But if it's happened a larger issue or repeated thing then I'm going to message them about it. Even if to just say something like: "Hey, in <thread> I saw that this thing happened but got ignored... please remember that character actions have consequences and really can't be ignored."

 

But if they have a habit of ignoring the consequences or have a really large issue then I'm going to take action. Like if the game is a zombie survival game and they keep trying to feed the zombies with carrots then I will have one bite their character. (Zombies are not pets and treating them like one is a surefire way to die.) Yes this is a death sentence but a player that refuses to acknowledge the risks and abuses plot armour is way more trouble than they're worth.

 

A long time ago I did have a player that kept wanting to ignore the consequences. They applied with a character that I outright said no to and they reworked them into something I'd be fine with. But when it came time to play? They basically ran headlong into a 1v1 fight against a superior fighter (by this I mean a superhuman level opponent) in their home territory. In essence.... a colossally stupid idea. (The whole structure of that game was based around the idea that teams of like 6 went to face off against this level of threat because the odds were that stacked against them.) They tried to basically crush that fighter single handledly and I told them prior that it was not a good idea to try it. But they ignored me and did it anyway... The superior fighter broke their character's arm with a single kick. I gave them a chance to back off, regroup with the team... but they tried to godmod and ignore the hit. So I had the fighter outright kill their character. (Fist through heart style.)

They tried to ignore it and then re-implement ideas that I'd shot down on their character creation. (The idea was that their character was a ghost of sorts that was just possessing a body, killing the body effectively wouldn't hurt the character.) 

It ended with me basically telling them (and everyone) that any posts made for this particular character were to be ignored. (Since at the time it was a single topic roleplay and I wasn't yet staff so no powers to delete things.)

Edited by VirusZero
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"There are three sides to every story... Your side, their side, and then somewhere in the middle is the truth."
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Be firm, but fair is how I’d advise fellow plot runners to go about doing it. And my way of being firm but fair is what I'd call introducing the element of “fair-play consequences”. Now, as others in the thread before me have mentioned, it's totally un-fun for everyone else to allow players to treat the plots as their characters’ personal stomping grounds and have them commit Stupid Shit™ without any sort of IC accountability, ever. Now, contrary to the popular opinions here I’ll say I have no objections to plot armour… but y'know, even that has limits.

 

But inversely, going too far down the opposite lane can have its downsides too. Because I dunno, if a plot runner/storyteller starts going trigger-happy on other RPers in dishing out smackdowns on their characters it's a red flag that they're suffering an acute case of Control Freak or Railroading (Asshole) DM. Like they clearly have some sort of “script” in mind that they expect everyone’s characters to follow, and will not take kindly to any sort of deviation.

 

So it's like they only have one specific resolution in mind for this particular plot, and come hell or high water you're all expected to play along with that. And if anyone thinks they can get creative and come up with an alternative solution, the storyteller quickly treats their character to the business end of a Flaming Beatdown Stick because stick to the script, goddammit! And I must say, I salute these people… with my middle finger.

 

So, here are the basic tenets IMO of fair-play consequences…

 

Give the players a chance to cover their tracks

Yeah, the developer of Yandere Simulator once said this in response to complaints about the game's difficulty, that “getting away with murder isn't supposed to be easy”; and on that I can wholeheartedly agree. But, who's to say the player characters can't get away with their dastardly deeds if they play their cards right? Sometimes, a good DM/storyteller should know when to play a graceful loser and accept that the player - for now - managed to gain the upper hand. Like say, they carried out a murder behind closed doors, with a silenced weapon out of earshot of possible witnesses. That being said…

 

Making everyone a psychic is no fun

It's not cool IMO to magically zap them with laser-guided karma; such as having all NPCs under your control suddenly become psychics and know what the players just did (like those Elder Scrolls games NPCs) and start hounding them at every turn. Besides, letting them get away for a turn opens up new plot possibilities - i.e. another character has their suspicions on who was behind the murder, but can't take action until they gather incriminating evidence, thus opening up a new subplot.

 

To sum things up…

Rather than treat IC consequences as a punishment/penalty, make it fun for the players to play them out by treating them as a subplot - I.e. so you managed to bomb the evil megacorp HQ and assassinate their chairman - but now comes the hard part of escaping the city that's being placed under lockdown as martial law takes effect and a citywide manhunt is being launched for their characters - rather than “go directly to jail, do not pass go, do not collect $200.” A good storyteller builds on RPer actions rather than regulating or stopping them. That's my $0.02

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We don't actually have a rule regarding in-character consequences because we expect our players to realize this. Even in our fantasy game, the characters are not immortal or invincible.

 

The only time, so far, that I have found it to be an issue is with that player that wants to have their character injured constantly as an attention grab or to grandstand. Those characters often find themselves sidelined while they recover and missing out on the next major plot or two.

 

I did once have a player have her character wind up unexpectedly pregnant despite the use of contraceptives. My male character just blinked at her, demanded to know whose kid it was because he was shooting blanks, and broke up with her. When I wouldn't relent and allow rewrites, she quit.

 

Mostly though, since we left off doing the big-box canon type games (Marvel comes to mind), we haven't had many issues with this.

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Someone somewhere went to sleep and dreamed us all alive.
Dreams get pushed around a lot, and I doubt if we'll survive.
We won't get to wake up, dreams were born to disappear.
And I'm pretty sure that none of us are here.
~ None of Us Here by Jim Stafford ~

 

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The people who do this tend to be those who have a hard time distinguishing between IC and OOC. My guess is that their hesitance to have their characters be subject to any real consequences is because they can't separate their character from themself. I really wish people wouldn't do this. It's one thing for a character to have some aspects similar to yourself--it's nearly unavoidable; but it's an entirely other thing when someone takes every slight against their character as a slight against themself.

 

In my experience, if you tell someone upfront that their character needs to make some changes or face some consequences, they'll find some way to weasel out of it at first--and then go straight back to what they were doing before. If you tell them enough times, then they viciously attack you and accuse of being 'awful' and 'unfair' because you didn't let them do whatever the hell they wanted without any regard for other players (????). There's no way to approach the problem without someone ending up unhappy or angry with you. But if you don't say anything, then other members have to just deal with their nonsense. It's a lose-lose situation.

 

Both times I've dealt with a situation like this, I tried really hard to make the person who was godmodding happy and make other people happy. I tried to help them, to include them, to encourage them to be a better writer, but also to address my own and other members' concerns about unfairness. In the end, I just made everyone--including myself--miserable. Someone who thinks the rules don't apply to them is just never going to be convinced otherwise. It never ends peacefully. It's tough and I sympathize with anyone who has to deal with it. The best thing to do, I guess, is just to ignore it. If someone won't play nicely, then all you can do is leave them out of the game. As long as your site's structure allows people to choose who they RP with, then people will just stop RPing with someone who annoys them. And, eventually, the godmodder will get bored and leave. (Hopefully.)

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  • 3 weeks later...

I think it should be common knowledge, but there's always players who just want to push their characters' weight around without getting in trouble should they go too far.

 

one site I'm on decided to make the setting more powerful than any character can be. Characters on their home turf can do pretty much what they want, but characters in official site locations will have to deal with the consequences written into the settings if they make trouble. Whether immediate or delayed depends on the plot, what damage done, and whether the interaction is character vs character (not pertaining to anyone else) or character vs setting including npcs. Players got upset when it was implemented, but in the end it worked to emphasize that those who would make trouble think what it means plotwise.

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This is for sure a topic that I have struggled with personally and I will admit it. This was also my hardest adjustment from going from chat based rps to forum based. In chat rooms you saw the scene unfolding and you jumped in a lot of times without even talking to the people, which now....oh man there would be hell to pay!!

 

So I think now OOC talking is key, and also we started a thread called: How Do You Plot? Where people can go and talk about their plotting preferences that way when a new relationship is starting or threads are being dreamed up you can easily see their expectations and meet them in the middle. 

 

It has super super super helped.

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"Everyone has been doing so much soul searching during all of this,

and I'm just over here drawing pics of my character's dicks."

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I don't think I really care? I mean, my characters lose all the time, and I do think that consequences are 90% of the fun, otherwise what was the point of doing whatever they did? But if for someone else the fun is in having their characters have their way, well, just let them. Character robbed a bank and no one caught them? Fine. They get injured and insta-recover for the next big fun thing? Welcome! They keep getting in dangerous situations and never get hurt? Well, I like movies too. 

 

The only thing I do is react IC, though. Not because I want to throw IC consequences at people, but because usually the plot opportunities are really cool. Like the cop on the bank robber's case who might happen to notice how much money that person is now suddenly spending. Or a friend who points out how much of a drama queen is that character who 'was dying' last week but now is perfectly fine!

 

I think this is how it self regulates in a site. If people see something happen they will want to react to it ICly, and if no one does, what does it matter that it happened? 

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