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App Reviews (Admins and Members)


Samantha
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As an admin: do you do public reviews (post the review in the thread of their application) or private ones (through PMs, either on site or on discord? And why do you do them that way?
- As an admin, been around for like, 20+ years doing this RP thing, I have always done reviews in private. I don't think I've ever been on a site that did them publicly. The most public remark that was ever made was "Hey, check your PM's!" which I see nothing wrong with. I know on my current site I've had members ask publicly about their app. When they do that, I assume it's a green flag to talk to them there. I'm not opposed to open discussion if that's what the member wants. I just typically start the discussion with a PM going "Hey! So XYZ doesn't exactly fit with the site lore as it's set up." and go from there.
 
Also: does one staff member review the apps, do you split them up, or does more than one staff member look over the same app?
On my own site, I usually start with myself as admin, and build the team from there. When it comes to apps, it's usually a first come, first serve kind of situation.  In the past it's always been a one step approval, unless a member has something odd going on, then we all discuss. I'm part of a team on another site, and they require a two step process. I will freely admit that I kind of stay out of the process, and focus mostly on advertising there.
 
As a member: do you (or would you) prefer app reviews to be done publicly (posted under your app) or privately (the admin PMs you about edits that need to be done or issues with lore, etc)?
Personally, I familiarize myself with lore enough before I join a site, that if they choose to be public about a review, it's something I goofed on and didn't catch. It doesn't bother me at all. I will not pass on a site based on how they handle their reviews, generally. 
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17 hours ago, Stormwolfe said:

 

I understand this although I will affably defend my site for having more than one person look over bios. In my case, I'm very old and about half-blind. The second set of eyes is just that - to look for things I might have missed. I'd really hate to get a new player started writing only to realize I'd missed something vital in their bio that has a major negative impact. It's just a precaution to protect us and the new guy or gal. ;)

 

However, I can see how it might be off-putting if someone has to wait for six or seven people to put on their stamp of approval or get PM'd by multiple people to fix different things. 

 

winking face

 

I get it.  It's one of the things that I can understand that there may be really good reasons to have more than one person approve an application.  From my experience as a member, however, I don't see the benefits.  I don't know that the admin has visibility problems and wants a bit of help (or whatever other issue there is).  All I know is my own experiences being a member on a site with double approvals, and how much time and drama and "professionalism" and lack of trust in fellow staff members there can be.

 

And it's even worse when the staff members each have to put their stamp on the application for approval.  You get excited because there's a reply, but it's just something that says "Approved by FluffyButts!  One more approval is needed!" or "Awaiting Second Approval!" and then you have to wait and wait and wait for that other person to appear and approve it.  Even worse when that other person is out of town or away for the weekend.  Now an approval process which normally takes 24 hours on a site is taking 36 hours.

 

I'm digressing, so I'll stop right there.

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8 minutes ago, Uaithne said:

And it's even worse when the staff members each have to put their stamp on the application for approval.  You get excited because there's a reply, but it's just something that says "Approved by FluffyButts!  One more approval is needed!" or "Awaiting Second Approval!" and then you have to wait and wait and wait for that other person to appear and approve it.  Even worse when that other person is out of town or away for the weekend.  Now an approval process which normally takes 24 hours on a site is taking 36 hours.

 

Wow! Way too complex. I guess I should also state that our bios are for reference purposes more than for access control. Not sure that makes much sense. They are more for everyone else to look at and read to see if their characters might mesh for scenes. I tend to read bios as soon as I'm notified they are ready - unless it's during the middle of the night when I'm asleep. In many cases, since I'm retired, I've read the bio as it was created and talked to the player as they worked on it. By the time it's finished, they practically have a pre-approval.

 

If the new player has worked on their bio mostly on their own, I read it as soon as possible. I make note of any concerns and send those to whoever is playing my 2nd set of eyes. I will stay on the 2nd person to read bios ASAP. Once we're agreed on what's a 'real' issue (if any), I contact the player. If there are connections to played characters, we do ask the other player(s) to read JUST the connections section and say yes, I agreed to that or no, that's not what we discussed. That part doesn't affect approval. They just have to change the connection section - if they've even used it.

 

My goal is to give an approval or please fix within 24 hours. If it will take longer, I let the player know immediately. If my second set of eyes drags their feet, I approve it.

 

Honestly, I can't remember the last time a bio was held up more than a few hours while I waited to get answers to some questions back from the new person.

 

I really do understand the frustration of waiting and getting incremental approvals or do this and do that from more than one source. I also understand when there are delays because real life impacts whichever admins are designated as bio approvers. 

 

I am really enjoying this discussion. I have made notes to make sure that our process is as streamlined as possible. @Samantha  Thanks for starting this thread!

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We won't get to wake up, dreams were born to disappear.
And I'm pretty sure that none of us are here.
~ None of Us Here by Jim Stafford ~

 

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To clarify, we post a 'your application is under review' post which says it may take up to 48 hours. It also gives the new player things to do while they wait. 

There is only one approval posted. 

If any fixes are needed it is sent in one PM by the 'Admin team'. 

Once approval has been done, all superfluous posts under the app are removed. 

Our app also serves as a plotter 

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Thank you all so much for your replies - they've all been so helpful! 

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As an admin: do you do public reviews (post the review in the thread of their application) or private ones (through PMs, either on site or on discord? And why do you do them that way?
 
On Ark, we privately send, in that we mark the application as pending and then pm the member. This is, in truth, to keep people from panicking out of nervousness and sensitivity. (My coadmin and I did this basically from looking around discussions about apps and deciding this route was less of a head ache.)
 
Also: does one staff member review the apps, do you split them up, or does more than one staff member look over the same app?
 
We review apps based on who gets to them first. However, we double check with each other fairly frequently. This is mostly meant to maintain order and consistency. (We have a power rating rubric, and if we often verify our numbers with each other if the applicant has an entirely different number.)
 
As a member: do you (or would you) prefer app reviews to be done publicly (posted under your app) or privately (the admin PMs you about edits that need to be done or issues with lore, etc)?
 
Despite how Ark runs, I prefer public pending, on forum, in thread. This is mostly for personal perfectionist reasons, but also to figure out group dynamics and how admins and players interact. A lot can be learned about a site by their application process. (Also, I have a thing for obsessive and perfect lore... so... yeah. If I notice world inconsistencies in applications or if I see that no one has ever been pended on your high fantasy site, I'm going to be somewhat concerned.)
I'm that weird kid who wants to know that there are rules and boundaries, because I know I can make some special afs snowflakes if given the leeway. :D Don't give me that much power. #chosenone
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If it is of any comfort to you, @Stormwolfe, I think you handle the double approval situation better than most administrators I've seen with it.  I really appreciate that you are willing to bypass the second approval if it's taking too long.

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@Uaithne   I wasn't bothered by your point of view, just thought I'd let you know that there are sites that use multiple approvals well. I truly understand how frustrating it can be to wait and wait and all of that. Also, reading your post here inspired me to review our review process winking face  which is a good thing.  I am always looking for best practices to put into our processes. Someday, we might forsake reviews all together, but for now, they are needed.

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Someone somewhere went to sleep and dreamed us all alive.
Dreams get pushed around a lot, and I doubt if we'll survive.
We won't get to wake up, dreams were born to disappear.
And I'm pretty sure that none of us are here.
~ None of Us Here by Jim Stafford ~

 

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I am doing dual approval too, @Uaithne, but if it lasts more than 24 hours, I send my point of view first (or I approve the character, if there were no comments from me to the bio), with the caveat that some more changes might happen later (ie when the second administrator comes on). Indeed, our specialisations are different, and our outlook is different. I can't catch what she sees, she doesn't notice or doesn't care about what I do. 

 

And the idea is to work with the new member to enhance her bio, not to reject, so we always send constructive comments, explanations and examples, where it is the case. 

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As an admin: do you do public reviews (post the review in the thread of their application) or private ones (through PMs, either on site or on discord? And why do you do them that way?

 

We do private PMs. We're not trying to call anyone out or make them feel uncomfortable as they're just coming into the community. We want to help them make a good first impression with their new rp family, and publicly pointing out flaws and whatnot isn't the best way to do that! Plus, we don't delete posts on our forum, they just get dumped into the trash forum, so we don't want those lingering comments around for everyone to see later.

 

Also: does one staff member review the apps, do you split them up, or does more than one staff member look over the same app?

 

We look over apps as a team! We have a large staff, currently 6 people, so we get at least 3 (half) to look over it before taking action. We like having multiple eyes to catch issues or red flags one of us might miss. There have been a couple instances where one person might've approved the app and another pended because they saw red flags about that person's behavior/writing/etc., so having multiple eyes isn't just about the app, it's about vetting the prospective member and their fit within the community. It's not about being competitive or us taking ourselves too seriously or being cliquey or anything like that. Sometimes, there's a lot of work that goes into it.

 

As a member: do you (or would you) prefer app reviews to be done publicly (posted under your app) or privately (the admin PMs you about edits that need to be done or issues with lore, etc)?

 

Personally, I don't mind either way. I'm not afraid of public humiliation on the internet. But I'm a rare bird there. Mess me up.

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Quote

As an admin: do you do public reviews (post the review in the thread of their application) or private ones (through PMs, either on site or on discord? And why do you do them that way?

 

All our reviews are done through PM. Personally, I feel that app reviews are between the staff and the member. No one else needs to be privy to why so-and-so's app was pended. We also do them privately so the member does not feel publicly "attacked" - I've been on RPs before where the staff did public reviews (and I do mean PUBLIC, where members were allowed to comment on the apps) and it made me incredibly uncomfortable. I'd like to spare my members from that horror.

 
Quote

Also: does one staff member review the apps, do you split them up, or does more than one staff member look over the same app?

 

My coadmin and I both look at every app we receive. It's a good way to catch things one of us might have missed - plus, we can't be accused of showing favoritism if both of us have to review before approving. 

 

Quote


As a member: do you (or would you) prefer app reviews to be done publicly (posted under your app) or privately (the admin PMs you about edits that need to be done or issues with lore, etc)?

 

 
See above. :) I hate the idea of public reviews. I would rather not have the peanut gallery privy to any issues in my applications.

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  • 3 weeks later...

As a member, I won't join a site that does public reviews. The one time I did, the admin went from public reviews with me to PM where they would start trashing on me and my character in a very tactless manner that was quite uncomfortable... Which may sound contradictory to my preference of keeping things private.

 

As an admin, I do private reviews via PM. I try to keep them as concise as possible via bullet points and try to emphasise the fact that I'm willing to work with them on the corrections if need be. In the past, we - the staff team - would always review apps together. At my own site, "easy" apps we can just approve of on our own but harder apps my mod and I will review together regardless of who would be sorting/contacting/etc.

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  • 3 weeks later...
As an admin: do you do public reviews (post the review in the thread of their application) or private ones (through PMs, either on-site or on discord? And why do you do them that way?

A: On the sites I've staffed, we don't normally come across many people we need to either pend or deny in the first place, but if we do, it's always discussed in an on-site PM. I personally feel like it's better to do them that waay because depending on what the changes are that need to be made (say, if they're major) I wouldn't want someone posting a big list of all the things I did wrong for everyone to see in a public forum. 
 
Also: does one staff member review the apps, do you split them up, or does more than one staff member look at the same app?
 
A) This has varied from where site to site for where I staff. Sometimes I approve the app myself, but generally all of the staff at least look at it, because they may see something that I don't. To repeat what Dusty said above, it always helps to have a fresh set of eyes look at something imo.
 
As a member: do you (or would you) prefer app reviews to be done publicly (posted under your app) or privately (the admin PMs you about edits that need to be done or issues with lore, etc.)?
 
A) Privately. Again, see what I said in the first answer about having edits posted publicly, under the app. Not a huge fan. 
 
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I always did it publicly in the past, for several reasons: 
   1. Back in the day that's how it was done. There wasn't anything "attacky" about it, as most apps had a couple of notations prior to acceptance so it wasn't as if the New Member was the only one that needed revisions. 
   2. There were multiple staff members charged with approving apps on a first-see-first-check basis, and we didn't want to accidently gang up on anybody (even though eventually it often fell on me or our local Profile Nazi).  
   3. It helped to protect Staff from accusations of harassment or being treated unfairly, as PMs were not something that could be accessed by anybody other than the conversation participants
   4. 96% of the time, it was minor template issues or minor lore issues, nothing wrong with the actual app. So the member would get a "Hey everything looks really good except for this minor arguably dumb thing, can you change it real quick and other than that you're approved!". 

    5. It saved us (and members) from having the same mistake 20 times, and often showed us where we needed to modify the profile/app process to make things easier on our members, who often gave us real-time feedback. 

    6. My opinion is that it's humbling to see in real time that even Staff doesn't get a free pass on powers or is perfect. It shows new members that we're fair(as we can be, as nobody is perfect) and check our own selves/team. 

* At one point we did a stint where you needed 2 stamps to be approved: this was to try and force character mods to actually, well, moderate character profiles. It was a major fail, and I ended up auto-approving everyone after the 24hr allotment (to avoid profile limbo) anyway.

 

On my new site though, I'm trying out an "automatic soft approval" where members can jump into the RP as soon as they have a profile posted, but with the caveat that if anything is super-lore breaking we will be in contact with them to make edits. This I plan to do by PM, and use the profile pages more as a wiki-type record that members can freely update periodically at their leisure. 

 

 

 

 

As a member, to be honest, I really don't have a preference for how staff chooses to do their approvals. If they DO require multiple approvals, I'd appreciate knowing they have a "backup plan" just in case of an MIA staff, but that's really the only thing I ask for aside from general professionalism in outlining what issues my profile has. 

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