Staffing Faceclaims & Gender

[Anonymous 234]

I'm looking for some help. The site I manage seems to have an unspoken rule on our site that is basically "Use the gender & pronouns of the faceclaim". I say this is unspoken because we have had no official rules on the matter, but the players complain if a new member joins and the gender pronouns don't match what the actor/model has requested to be used for them IRL.

 

Someone recently joined that used a MtF (Male to Female) transitioned model as a gender-fluid character. All of the imagery they use is from the time while the model was still identifying as male. I found evidence after some research that the model previously went on record as preferring male pronouns, then some interviews that were more recent that they transcended gender, but since they have transitioned fully to female and currently use she/her pronouns. The player is staying true to their character concept of gender fluidity and has swapped the use of their pronouns as how the character feels, therefore they use both he/him & she/her depending on the character's gender in the moment.

 

I've received complaints about the character and nobody wants to play with the new player because of THE UNSPOKEN RULE being broken and them not staying true to the faceclaim's identity. After a week of deliberation, I spoke to the player about it asking their intent and if they were willing to use a different faceclaim. The player is unwilling to use another faceclaim, despite my suggestions at us finding a genderfluid model or actor (even though I researched for hours to find many, and to find interviews to confirm their genders) and they want the character archived. 

 

Although this particular instance has ended (in an unsatisfactory manner let me tell you I really liked the character concept and wanted to see more genders represented on the site) I feel like this problem will only continue. I am happy to confront my complaining players about their weirdness on this issue - because I know for a fact they are all more than happy to change their faceclaim's sexuality, so it feels a bit, idk hypocritical to get all over a new player for their alteration of a faceclaim's pronouns even if that faceclaim is trans?

 

What do you think? Do any of you have restrictions on faceclaim use particularly if the writer is changing the face-claim's biological sex, sexuality, gender identity? How do you handle unspoken community rules that affect new players?

Anonymous poster hash: e3cb9...e84

[Huskerdust 625]

Personally, I feel pretty shitty for the person who was playing the gender fluid character. We change up sexuality and hometowns/birthplaces all the time. Sometimes people change up ethnicity. So what's the problem with changing up the identified gender of the character? The avatar/face claim is--to me, anyway--a guideline telling us what the character's general appearance is. "Here is an image that tells you what they look like"--regardless of their real life identity. Where is the line for those complaining? Where is the line separating a totally made up character with the visual representation? 

 

I use a gender fluid model for a male identifying character and I've never gotten shit for it. Personally, if I did, I'd feel uncomfortable on that site. So yeah, I do feel for this person. 😕 

[Icewolf 258]

It seems to me that the people complaining are just doing so to cause a fuss and drama over nothing, and it's very sad that the player decided that they had to archive the character over it. As long as a writer is handling a trans character in a respectful manner and isn't using the character to be offensive, then they should just be left as they are. Who knows? Maybe further down the line writer was going to change the pronoun to what the faceclaim is using and has been prevented from developing their character.

[CovertSphinx 710]

Quote

"but the players complain if a new member joins and the gender pronouns don't match what the actor/model has requested to be used for them IRL." 

^ This statement right here, I feel is a HUGE breach of the  IC =/= OOC concept that we RPers often preach about (AKA, and RPer's GOLDEN RULE). And Honestly? It makes your staff and your members look like A*holes. What you guys did was  entirely wrong on a moral level (Solely speaking in regards to being "inclusive"). 

Images/Faceclaims/Descriptions/Playbys are supposed to be GENERAL APPEARANCES of your character - what the actor/tress is in RL has NOTHING to do with their visuals for a character. How many times has a homosexual actor played a straight man? Or a straight woman a lesbian? The "squick" that your members has goes completely AGAINST the core concept of acting in itself: I make this statement just in case anybody were to try and reason that the purpose of a faceclaim is because we're pretending that actor/tress is acting as our headcanon character for the purpose of the "movie" we're writing on the forum. 
 

Quote

"because I know for a fact they are all more than happy to change their faceclaim's sexuality, so it feels a bit, idk hypocritical to get all over a new player for their alteration of a faceclaim's pronouns even if that faceclaim is trans?"

^ Yes, it IS a giant pot of Hypocrite Stew, and I would personally CITE this fact in telling your existing member base that they're being unreasonable jerkwads. 

 

Quote

How do you handle unspoken community rules that affect new players?

"Dear Member;  there is absolutely nothing wrong with XYZ and you are being unreasonable. We're here to welcome new people, not create outcasts because their ideas are a little different than what we are used to. That is the beautiful thing about RPing: All of our different inspirations coming together in a mixing pot of culture and story instead of suffering the same tired plotlines over and over again like re-runs."

[Jacob 58]

It's been years since I've staffed, but I keep to traditional views of gender and sexuality.  They aren't different in my eyes, which only a minority have heckled me for.  I cannot bow to the latter group at all, nor to face-claims.  Really muse on the door you've opened.

Edited May 26, 2018 by Jacob

[Dragon 673]

On the one hand, the above responses raise good points. On another, as admin/staff you have obligations to your existing member base. I'm going to approach this solely in regard to the latter.

 

The line the community has been drawn may be arbitrary, but all lines are to some extent or another. Based on the information given, it seems that the community has set a pretty solid boundary for what they find acceptable and comfortable. That doesn't necessarily make them assholes. Not everyone agrees about everything, and they don't have to. 

 

So in proceeding, you have to decide if its a hill worth dying on. What are the pros and cons? Consider how strongly your existing member base feels about this. Are members willing to abandon the site over it? If so, how many are willing to leave? If it turns out that several are willing to leave over it, then is the sacrifice of X number of players really worth catering to one? Could your site survive after an exodus? 

 

If the answer to any of those last three questions is yes, I would advise that you consider turning that unspoken rule into a spoken rule. As it is, you've said that none of the older members want to interact with that character. So while you can strong arm them into keeping their malcontent to themselves, you can't make them interact with a character they don't want to. Maybe that player is better served in a different community.

 

There's nothing wrong with listening to the existing member base, and heeding what they find comfortable. From a staffing perspective, it strikes as a needs of the many outweighing that of the few. 

 

 

[To The Minamobile 14]

From personal experience, I also once used a model (possibly the same one) who had transitioned publicly to female but had a large body of pre-transition work which involved androgyny, as a character who was gender fluid. I remember this because I specifically stopped to ask the admins if it was okay to do this, because the character used primarily male pronouns. Thankfully, the staff and the particular site were okay with it. If they hadn't been, I would have changed because making people uncomfortable wouldn't be worth keeping the playby, for me. 

 

As someone who is also hyper aware of how sensitive some people are to these things, including myself, I have to chime in and say that it might just have been that your member base were made uncomfortable by what they viewed as misgendering because they themselves are sensitive to the prospect IRL. Some of these things despite doing our best to separate IC and OOC are just too closely meshed to really do that. It doesn't make your members assholes, it makes them human. 

[Quell 249]

This had happened to me as a player. I likewise use a MtF model for a character who is gender fluid and I use a mixture of their current pictures and pretransition pictures (because that was the reason I chose the play by--the pictures having such a range).

 

Anyway, needless to say, the fc is just a fc. If the member is referring to the fc by the wrong pronouns, that is an issue, but if they happened to find someone who looks like their character... -shrug-

 

I feel like this is setting a double standard so intensely. If you have to match the genders of your actor, can you never play a character who makes the transition on site? Can you only use gender fluid models to portray a gender fluid character? 

Edited May 26, 2018 by Thyme

[Elena 546]

12 hours ago, CovertSphinx said:

^ This statement right here, I feel is a HUGE breach of the  IC =/= OOC concept that we RPers often preach about (AKA, and RPer's GOLDEN RULE). And Honestly? It makes your staff and your members look like A*holes. What you guys did was  entirely wrong on a moral level (Solely speaking in regards to being "inclusive"). 

Images/Faceclaims/Descriptions/Playbys are supposed to be GENERAL APPEARANCES of your character - what the actor/tress is in RL has NOTHING to do with their visuals for a character. How many times has a homosexual actor played a straight man? Or a straight woman a lesbian? The "squick" that your members has goes completely AGAINST the core concept of acting in itself: I make this statement just in case anybody were to try and reason that the purpose of a faceclaim is because we're pretending that actor/tress is acting as our headcanon character for the purpose of the "movie" we're writing on the forum. 
 

^ Yes, it IS a giant pot of Hypocrite Stew, and I would personally CITE this fact in telling your existing member base that they're being unreasonable jerkwads. 

 

"Dear Member;  there is absolutely nothing wrong with XYZ and you are being unreasonable. We're here to welcome new people, not create outcasts because their ideas are a little different than what we are used to. That is the beautiful thing about RPing: All of our different inspirations coming together in a mixing pot of culture and story instead of suffering the same tired plotlines over and over again like re-runs."

 

This was exactly what I was going to say. We are writing our characters, not the actors who seem to look like them a little. So the actors' declared gender is of no importance. They can play any role.

[Shades 676]

Honestly, I think the way your community acted to this new player was wrong based on the fact there isn't a spoken rule. And you as a staff member requiring them to change their FC again based on something that is not a site rule was also pretty bad from a member perspective. In this member's place, I would have done the same. Thanked you for your time and asked for my character to be archived, because what else would I be called out on that was not in the rules? And no matter how much you like someone's character concept, they don't owe anyone being on a site where they feel uncomfortable or may even have felt attacked. And if nobody would write with them because of their FC? That's a pretty bad message for a new member, I don't blame the person for leaving.

 

Now, with that out of the way, I would address it with your staff and make it into a spoken rule, since your members feel that strongly over it that they're willing to turn a new member who doesn't know the site's culture into an outcast instead of approaching them on the matter.

 

There's nothing wrong with a community preferring/feeling strongly about something. But if it's something the community can't do without, it needs to be in the rules/documentation, so prospective members know whether or not the site is a fit for them.

[Samantha 64]

Honestly, to me, the idea that a face claim can represent a character who is a werewolf/vampire/witch/ghost/demon/shapeshifter or anything of that nature but pronouns are where people draw the line is a little ridiculous to me. Especially since I'm pretty sure there aren't any actors or models out there who are actually moonlighting as real werewolves. 

 

I see no issue in having a non gender fluid FC used as one AS LONG AS they are respectful about it. On our site aa long as you're respectful about things that are of a sensitive nature and don't fall into stereotypes and being insulting, we allow it. 

 

We've had and have members on the site who are trans/gender fluid or fall under the LGBTQ+ label and I'll be damned if I'd let them feel uncomfortable or disrespected by members in the community behaving that way about a gender fluid character. After educating the memberbase if they still continued to act horribly they'd get a warning and if it continued they'd be banned. I would rather have my few LGBTQ+ members feel safe and comfortable and potentially lose a few members than to shut down a character who the member may very well identify with. 

 

That being said - I believe we have one gender fluid character and one transgender character on the site and not one member has ever said anything about it outside of wanting to plot or thread. 

 

Sorry, went off on a bit of a tangent.

 

TL;DR faceclaims aren't werewolves or vampires either - if you don't see a problem with that then you shouldn't see a problem with them being used for gender fluid characters either. 

Edited June 9, 2018 by Samantha

[featherstone 69]

Faceclaims are how a character looks like, not their identity. Worrying about what pronouns the ACTOR uses isn't unlike saying they must have the same worldview, orientation, likings and whatnot... in the end you're not playing a character, you're playing the celebrity and I suppose that was not the theme of the game.

[Uaithne 543]

I only want to add in that I'd check to make sure that the PB seems okay to have themselves represented in that manner. If the person outright stated discontent at being referred to as male in the past (or something), then I can see how declining that particular PB may be the best decision. Like when actors don't want people using them as PBs period.

[Elena 546]

3 hours ago, Uaithne said:

I only want to add in that I'd check to make sure that the PB seems okay to have themselves represented in that manner. If the person outright stated discontent at being referred to as male in the past (or something), then I can see how declining that particular PB may be the best decision. Like when actors don't want people using them as PBs period.

 

What does it matter? Are you playing your character (who just happens to look like that actor) or the actor himself with his life? If you are playing your character (which should be the case), then it's just a role which has nothing to do with the actual person's life details. How many actresses had, once or another time, a role disguised as male? How many young actors had played women's roles, especially in the time when women weren't allowed on the scene? It is nothing different.

[Uaithne 543]

14 hours ago, Elena said:

 

What does it matter? Are you playing your character (who just happens to look like that actor) or the actor himself with his life? If you are playing your character (which should be the case), then it's just a role which has nothing to do with the actual person's life details. How many actresses had, once or another time, a role disguised as male? How many young actors had played women's roles, especially in the time when women weren't allowed on the scene? It is nothing different.

 

I might not have been clear (I'm often not when trying to write on mobile).  There are some celebrities who clearly request not to be used as PBs, and we respect them by not using them as PBs.  In the same vein, if this PB clearly requested to not be associated with a certain gender, it would be respectful to not associate them with that gender.  I don't know who the celebrity is so I don't know if there were any of such requests made, but I figured I'd add it in here since most of my other thoughts on the topic were already discussed.