Staffing IC =/= OOC but my character has to be PC? Why?

[Dragon 673]

So one of the imperative consensus of the role play world is that what happens in character does not have any impact on out of character events or relationships. However, on the flip side there are many sites where characters in threads, entirely IC speaking, are forced to behave in a wholly politically correct fashion – they can’t express any sort of racial or gender bias without that reflecting badly on the player. 

In my experience sexism in character is totally fine, but the moment LGBT+ or racial slurs etc are used it becomes an ooc issue. 

So how do you as an administrator or a player handle in character actions for characters “bigotry/racism/sexism” etc ? 
 

[Bezyle 31]

Yo honest to god, this is now a Tarantino film. If we are roleplaying in 1700s southern America then so be it, you better play the part correctly. 

[Kit the Human 758]

I have so much irritation over this sort of thing.

 

All characters' relationship with the norms and customs of the time and place are filtered through their experiences. So it's never going to be as simple as, well it was illegal, religious views reigned supreme and there was no pride march therefore everyone was a raging homophobe BUT ALSO, a character in that setting will not carry views that could be simply transferred to a progressive person of middle class hipster town without hiccup. (Does that even make sense?)

 

As an admin, I don't get into it beyond pointing out when a character's behavior is completely unrealistic.

 

As a player, I adore getting into the mindset of the time/place and trying to build with that, so that comes with some shitty views. However, I'll never write a character that kind of monotonously replicate prejudicial views because I find that boring. Interesting people are a bit more multifaceted than that.

 

As a player with a character experiencing the discrimination....well, IC doesn't equal OOC so.

 

That said, if discrimination is your lived experience, it can be pretty boring and not fun to recreate in your stories. I get that. I give players a chance to express their limits, if they want to avoid those topics, they can make it clear in that space.

[Jaxx 317]

I expect the people I write with to be able to tell the difference between IC and OOC. When characters are written as some -ist, the person behind the keyboard generally doesn't turn out to be the same, in my experience.  I've written characters with prejudices myself, and it's never been because I'm secretly a racist or homophobe or whatever the case may be. It's because I find it interesting to write how that affects their behaviour. And sometimes it's weird or hard because it's a completely 180 from who I am in real life, but I like to see what I can pull off. 

 

I think people generally have an expectation that IC and OOC are different - especially on boards where you're playing supernatural creatures or superheroes/supervillains, which seem to be more popular these days. Nobody's going to look at a player and say, "Ah yes, this person has the personal experience and knowledge to play a genocidal maniac who wants to kill all the humans/werewolves/vampires/whatever." But we face -isms daily in real life, whereas mass murderers are a little rarer. So it hits closer to home, is what I guess I'm trying to say. 

 

But as an admin, while I allow characters with prejudices to be written on the board, I shut that shit down if it happens OOC, even as a joke. That kind of thing isn't funny, no matter why you think it's excusable. And I would hardly be able to advertise my site as welcoming or friendly or whatever if there were members acting like that. While there can be reasons for characters acting like that IC, I accept no excuses or reasoning for it OOC. If people don't like that... hopefully the door hits 'em on the way out.

[Kazetatsu 263]

Racism/sexism/lgbt issues that effect real life are currently are rather hot-button topics that a lot of individuals may take more seriously than say, racism against a made up species. Since its close to home in that sense, its more easy for a player's values to blur into how they perceive the actions of other's characters. Since like attracts like, Some rp communities have a majority of players who would be sensitive against such topics. As such there may be an unspoken or spoken rule to keep PC.

That said, I definitely don't agree with it. If a certain sort of bias makes sense in the setting, it shouldn't be banned from the setting.  As an admin, I'd remind people that ooc and ic aren't the same things. Ooc matters should be hit on the head if they're rude or disrespectful, of course, but ic is a different matter. The only time to discipline an ic extremist opinion is if its clearly ooc linked and so causing harm for the community.

[Beanie 27]

Hellooo historical board admin here! This is absolutely a thing we deal with. In particular, we try to stress that while the community is expected to be LGBT+ friendly and welcoming, (and a couple of our staff members identify as LGBT, incl. me), a lot of people in the VE are... not, and reputation is a very big deal, so most of our LGBT characters who are prominent society members are closeted.  Obviously any OOC racism/homophobia is shut down right away. (While racism was obviously a VE thing, I think that's written less than homophobia and definitely less than xenophobia, and probably couldn't pinpoint exactly why.)

 

However: to echo what other people have said, these things can hit close to home, and not everyone wants to play plots that are All About -ism All the Time. BIG SHRUG. 

[clipsed 231]

If I am uncomfortable around [ism]/[ia], I won't join a board with a setting likely to foster it. Whether that be ableism, homophobia, racism, etc. 

 

That said, there is something to be said for checking with your partner and knowing their limits. I'm 100% fine with you being racist towards my POC, but as someone of mixed race myself, I'd really prefer you not toss the n-word around like juggling balls in your character's dialogue/monologue. Likewise, my character might be discriminating or even abusive towards yours, but I'd like to think I'm a decent enough writer and person to orbit around terminology that would make you uncomfortable while still being true to the character and setting!

[Icewolf 258]

Characters are the sum of their experiences, just as people are in RL, so events that happen to a character in the game will impact on how they view the world and the characters around them. I say this because one character of mine was treated pretty badly by certain characters around them in one rp I was in, and when they expressed views that the writers of those characters didn't like, they used it as a reason to bully. My character would not have had those views had they'd been treated differently by those characters, but to then use it as a way of bashing a writer personally is low. (And sadly, most of the writers who behaved like it were part of the LGBTQ community, so I'm weary of interacting with writers who are that, now.) Sometimes people think that you should treat every character that you come across in an rp as your character's best friend, regardless of the way the character behaves towards yours, whether it would be logical that your character would be friendly towards theirs, etc, so in effect, you just can't play your character how it should be. I don't mind characters bickering and not liking each other but it shouldn't be turned into bullying against the writer which is how some folks behave.

[Rhindeer 217]

I think it all depends on the execution.

 

There is IC bigotry in my games; they are cultural norms in some areas. I am totally okay with characters ICly being products of their culture and expressing bigotry. I play some bigots myself, and I warn people before I thread with them. But generally I don't drop those characters on people I don't know well. :B

 

I have definitely seen cases where characters were used as mouthpieces, or played in a way that was very "lmao look at me being so dark and edgy!! SLUR SLUR SLUR, LOOK HOW NOT PC I AM!!" I expect most people are more mature and sensible than that, but hey, there's one in every family. Either way, these ones are pretty transparent. The mouthpieces can't keep OOC and IC straight anyway so they inevitably reveal their true colors OOC, and the edgelords are just...well...|: blatant with no sense of nuance or even real insight into the issues.

 

Also problematic: players who play characters who are -ist, and then complain that their character was treated badly by other characters as a result. Like. |: The hell you expect, man? I play an awful character, a slaver, and I fully expect her to be detested by other characters. That's the point. When I play -ist characters, I expect other characters to loathe them, ESPECIALLY characters who are of the groups my character is -ist against. I expect--and want--consequences, whether it's for my character to get their comeuppance or to learn and grow and become a better person. Yes, slavery is culturally acceptable in the setting she is in--but other player-characters have different opinions about where they stand on that.

 

Generally, I play these characters because I like to provide them as an obstacle/antagonist for other characters to overcome.

 

I've never been bullied as a result of playing those characters, even my really nasty ones. (A lot of my bigots are more subtle in their bigotry rather than foaming at the mouth, but I do have some extremists.) Buuuuut I make where I stand on those issues OOCly very clear, and play a very diverse cast. If I was quiet on those issues OOCly, and all my characters were -ist, I can fully see why other players would distrust me. Because honestly? I feel the same way. If all I know about a player is that all their characters are bigots (ESPECIALLY if they're all bigoted in the same way), I'm gonna be wary and steer clear. But if a player has variety in what they play, and/or they are a presence OOCly and make their opinions known, then we're all good.

Edited August 3, 2018 by Viscount Rhi-Rhi

[Guest Arantor]

This is something I've wondered about before now - how does this work in, say, a Harry Potter-based world where the racism is not merely a fact of life in the world but an active trigger for major events in the world? The fact that Voldemort is such a rampant racial-purist must inherently colour storylines and plots that players put together, surely?

 

In that situation, I'd imagine that you'd pretty much have to let a certain amount of racism that is appropriate to the characters at hand be in the story and be mindful that it doesn't overspill into OOC... right?

[clipsed 231]

3 minutes ago, Arantor said:

This is something I've wondered about before now - how does this work in, say, a Harry Potter-based world where the racism is not merely a fact of life in the world but an active trigger for major events in the world? The fact that Voldemort is such a rampant racial-purist must inherently colour storylines and plots that players put together, surely?

 

In that situation, I'd imagine that you'd pretty much have to let a certain amount of racism that is appropriate to the characters at hand be in the story and be mindful that it doesn't overspill into OOC... right?

 

To be fair, in HP it's more "speciesist" and "purist" than anything that directly translates with the real world. I don't know of anything in canon that would suggest Voldemort is racist as we know it.

[Guest Arantor]

The books treat it as a race issue, the races being magical and muggle. Not to mention the different speciesist stuff that specifically comes in with Umbridge and her anti-magical creatures stance.

 

But in any case, it's still a form of prejudice of a group of people, whatever the semantics - and if the rules say 'no racism', surely you're treading along that same tightrope? Racism, speciesism, ableism even - different flavours of the same problem, and presumably all need to be treated the same way in an RP situation: IC, do what is appropriate for your character even if that means your character is thoroughly repugnant and unredeemable, while being respectful and... well... not like that OOC. At least, that's what makes sense to me...

[Morrigan 1,826]

So the examples of "okay racism" are being presented as "fictional racism". When it comes to a modern site (even if it includes supernatural races) then it's a "personal issue".

 

In this thread so far we are saying these are two different IC issues which they aren't.

 

If I play a racist person as a character do you think I'm actually racist or maybe I'm playing a character that's racist? The difference, and the problem appears to be the fact that it's personal which isn't a slight against people but if I play a homophobe that doesn't mean I am a homophobe. I actually play a lesbian character and she's one of my best liked characters in all that I play (in fact a person here on the Initiative started a coterie in homage to her).

 

The issue I'm seeing coming up in this thread is "if it's pretend it's okay but if I don't like it it's not" which tells me that the cross between OOC and IC is blurred for these people which makes those of us that don't have that blurry line have to walk on eggshells. How am I supposed to tell (or for that matter, keep track of) everyone that gets upset about any joke that can upset them? I mean I barely remember things that upset my own kids sometimes ask @Faezilla and know that maybe sometimes it's hard to know that.

 

I feel it's unfair for someone to ask a brash or otherwise characteristically racist or homophobic character to be PC in a situation that calls for them to be homophobic or racist. It's like asking a gay character to be straight in a thread with someone that is homophobic. Unfair and generally not okay.

[Rune 1,099]

As long as it doesn't cross a boundary of being a caricature, sure. Do whatever. But if you are actively seeking threads with poc for your racist character to yell at them with no intention of it causing growth then I'm going to bring in the admin face.

[Rhindeer 217]

Hmm, I haven't seen anyone say anyone is -ist if they play an -ist character. In fact, I've seen most people in this thread state they play bigots themselves. I'm in the LGBTQIA* spectrum and I play a few homophobes, for example. But I have seen people state that there are perhaps some red flags and certain behaviors they look out for--@Rune had a good example of that.

 

I guess the best practice would be to just communicate and be open about stuff. Whenever I play one of my -phobes or -ists with someone I'm not familiar with, I just talk to them about it first to make sure they're comfortable with it, and so they know what to expect going in. Basically, those characters come with disclaimers. If you're not comfortable with that character being awful, that's cool. I have dozens of other characters to pick from. But if you insist on playing with that character, I am going to tell you straight up what to expect. You can tap out at any time if you go in and decide you can't handle it--that's fine! But this way, no one can say I didn't warn you and I've done my due diligence.

 

When I RP with my close buddies, pfffft, they know me well and know what to expect and know that stuff isn't a reflection of who I am. But with people who don't know me excect through my characters? I am more careful about that.

 

This is a hobby, so there's no point if everyone's not having fun, so I don't just toss these characters at people willy nilly. Doing -Ism: The Thread isn't fun for everyone, and that's fine. There are other plots and characters I can offer. 8D

Edited August 3, 2018 by Viscount Rhi-Rhi