Rhindeer 217 Share Posted August 7, 2018 The thing about short posts and one-liners is that they aren't stand-alone pieces. They aren't supposed to stand on their own. They are just a single piece of a much larger narrative. They occur within the context of an entire thread. They aren't just dropped there out of the blue with no context or build up. For example... Nasrin's eyes narrowed. "You're either incredibly arrogant, or incredibly stupid, and I can't figure out which." That was one of my posts, in response to a character being obnoxious at mine and flirting with her while she has a knife to his throat. The dynamics of those characters have long been established, and there are a hundred posts of context and build up backing up that one-liner. So it's not like it's supposed to be responded to on its own, without context. It's not an opening post--it's a post that is building off stuff that's already been going on and been established. I didn't need to keep repeating that she STILL has the knife held to his throat. I don't need to keep writing an internal monologue about how obnoxious she thinks he is, or how utterly fed up she is with him. She's been conveying that in her words and actions all throughout the thread. Of course, when I just share that post on its own without the rest of the thread supporting it, it doesn't seem like much at all. But you can't just take these posts out of their context, because they don't work that way and aren't supposed to work that way. Anyway, needless to say, my partner took that and ran with it and had no trouble responding. xD Another thing about shorter posts is that they still have all the description and detail and stuff that long posts have! HOWEVER! It may seem like they don't, just because they are actually one long post split up into like...5. I still end up writing the same amount that I used to back when I wrote 1K words a post--the only difference is that that same amount of words is now split up into multiple posts instead of one large post, and in actuality, I end up writing more as a result since I'm also writing more frequently. I say that as someone whose threads average hundreds of posts. Some of my threads have reached the 2k posts mark. I don't struggle at all to include a heck of a lot of detail and emotion and body language in my posts! But, again, it might be spread around more, since I'm not trying to cram it all into one single post. But...again...I'm still writing the same amount of detail and description as I would be if I were just cramming it all into a single, bigger post. It feels like, often, people who are avidly against one-liners just haven't actually seen them effectively used. It's not really the length of the post that's at fault--it's just that you've received boring posts, I'd wager. And those posts would be just as boring if they were longer. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elena 546 Share Posted August 7, 2018 @Viscount Rhi-Rhi, what you are saying (splitting a post into 5 shorter ones) would function in an environment where people post daily or almost daily. If those 5 posts are posted over 5 days or one week, it is the same as if you posted a longer post a week. But if you have time to reply only once a week, then you'd rather give me something of substance, to be able to continue the story (and I promise you something of substance too). Otherwise, it would go on 5 times longer than now and no thread would actually progress... 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhindeer 217 Share Posted August 7, 2018 @ElenaWell, yeah, it definitely depends on the community. But a preference for longer posts because the community is slower is different from saying that short posts and one-liners lack quality and substance. You know? Of course, when one isn't writing huge posts every post, and instead writes shorter posts, threads tend to move faster as a result. xD When I was writing 1k words a post, I could post like...several times a week. |: And I burned out fast. Now that I don't try to meet a word count and have also lost my fear of short posts and one-liners, my threads move super fast and I don't suffer the burnout/lack of muse. Because before, it would take me several hours to a day to compose one post--and now I can write like 10 or more posts in that same hour. I make more progress in the same amount of time. Again, not saying it's for everyone or even works for everyone! Preferences are a thing. My only objection is when people try to claim that one-liners and/or short posts lack substance and quality. They don't. And they're not supposed to be read on their own. Again, they have the context of the entire thread leading up to them. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valucre 19 Share Posted August 7, 2018 I'm of the same camp as Rhi here. There are still times that I dip into longer posts when I find I have both the time and the drive (and the inspiration) to just spin off a yarn, but having experimented with "brevity focused" roleplay the last few months and on/off throughout the years there are definitely advantages to both types. It really depends on if you want to focus more on the writing aspect or on the gaming aspect, but in either case one can't overlook the benefit of tighter pacing and timing to being able to see a story through to the end. The more frequently someone has to / gets to post, the more immersed in the story and character they tend to be throughout the plot's life cycle 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sage 289 Share Posted August 7, 2018 I prefer not to have a word count - I deal with those at my job every day so they are the bane of my existence (though usually it's editing them down instead of writing them up, but still). I still like to have a word counter to tell me where I'm at, but I'm not trying to meet anything before I send off my post. That said, a word count won't discourage me from joining a site I really like. It's not my favorite thing, but I'll probably let it slide if it's one of only a few issues I have with a site. 1 a dark, urban fantasy; inspired by sailor moon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meushell 18 Share Posted August 8, 2018 I don’t mind word counts, so long as I don’t actually worry about it. Basically, if I have to use a word counter to see if I made it, that’s not so I’m going to join. Overall though, seems more like a rule that to be used if needed. If two or more people are posting back-and-forth without an issue, regardless of how small each post is, then that is fine. The SGC is part of the group, Federation Sim Fleet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Rune 1,099 Author Popular Post Share Posted August 8, 2018 Slightly related, but even if there isn't a word count on a site I love to see word counters. I like watching numbers go up and I get a nice feel of satisfaction when I can make it to a certain point. Bonus points if I can get it to stop on an even number. 4 1 Heart of the Community 2018 Cry Wolf - 18+ AU Mercy Thompson (Urban Fantasy) RP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaWolfe 43 Share Posted August 9, 2018 I don't like to view written content as word count contest. Due to that people just write something down that has either not much to do with the story itself or the quality suffers under it. Yes, I do know that people can write quality post down in large word count, but not everyone can. Thought one line or Alinea is also not acceptable in my view. 1 Keeper RaWolfe Owner of the Exonia Realm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Ember 13 Share Posted August 9, 2018 With word counts I definitely feel there is no right or wrong. It really is down to personal preference. In terms of my own preference, from both a writing, and staffing a site point of view, I am very much of the 'quality over quantity' school. Posts for me, should be organic. And flow naturally for the character(s). Sometimes word counts inhibit that, Particularly in the higher or mid range bracket. And although I do tend to write at least 400 + words comfortably. For an opening post at least - following ones tend to drop a little as there is no more set up needed. I don't by any means think other people should be forced to match that. And having no word count definitely takes off the pressure, letting you to focus more on the post itself rather than it becoming a chore. Which sometimes, having to meet a set number of words can be. 🙂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bezyle 31 Share Posted August 11, 2018 Perhaps there needs to be a better understanding of what good quality is, in a different thread, I have an example of a post that I will share here. "“What do I do I have to scream for help but what if someone who wants to hurt people for. I reason hears me and blows up this crumbles building just to kill me”. *Is trapped under a building that has been blown up and tries to scream for help but no sound comes out of my mouth. All I feel is fear of dying underneath all the on brick and stone I slowly start to move stuff trying to get free and the stones collapse on me knocking me unconscious and Covering my body in stones and metal slowly starting to crush me*" It single-handedly defines my reasons for having a word count, because to me being conscious of a word count means you are at least paying attention to the words you use and how you use them. Before anyone assumes I'm calling anyone out this is the work of one of my students, I have their permission to post this so others have something to compare. She has since improved drastically. With that being said I use a word count to keep weaker minds away, that or to encourage those who want to meet higher standards to come in and ask how. I think a community (and I mean the role-playing community on all sites) needs to build up new audiences and stretch those muscles so that they can enjoy any role-play not just our own. Complacency is not good for the community, and if you present no challenge then quality will continue to degrade as a whole everywhere. Take the time to look where other people are role-playing off-site and you will see what I mean. I see what people mean by not wanting to feel pressured. I to take it easy every once in a while. Let me ask you how often have you declined partners or gotten bored with someone or something? How often have you had to take a lead role as opposed to both parties throwing curve balls at one another? How hard is it to find more staff for groups? How large is the pool of people you are really willing to RP with? How often do you deal with bad Roleplayers? Do you turn them away or do you show them the way? Just some things to think about. Not expecting any real answers. 1 [ HOME // FORUM // NEWSLETTER // DISCORD ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhindeer 217 Share Posted August 11, 2018 (edited) But in that example, the issue isn’t the number of words used. It’s the quality of them. If you have a word count, that just means you’d get to read even MORE of that incomprehensible stuff. Like, my games don’t have word counts. But we like quality. People who wrote like that would be weeded out naturally whether they wrote 5 words or 500, because the amount isn’t the issue there. A word count does make me more conscious of my words and how I use them—but not in a good way. Instead of focusing on writing a quality post, I start to focus on adding needless filler to meet that quota. That, to me, isn’t quality. I’m fantastic at word vomit; the challenge, for me, is cutting the fat and leaving behind the words that matter. Let me ask you how often have you declined partners or gotten bored with someone or something? I play with pretty much everyone who asks. xD Unless I know I don’t like their style, which is a whole long, complicated answer. I don’t bore easily, though—most of my threads have several hundred posts, and some have exceeded 2000. How often have you had to take a lead role as opposed to both parties throwing curve balls at one another? It’s a pretty even split, but it’s not a conscious decision. It’s very give and take in my threads, so much so that we don’t even think about it? It’s just whatever makes sense in the moment. How hard is it to find more staff for groups? Not really applicable in my situation. How large is the pool of people you are really willing to RP with? I play with about...15 - 20 different people currently? How often do you deal with bad Roleplayers? Not often! My games tend to attract people who are pretty damned solid. We have a lot of lore to get through, and huge worlds to learn, so that already weeds out a lot of people. Do you turn them away or do you show them the way? I have limited time now so I tend to focus on the RPs I enjoy and am invested in, but sometimes when I have extra time I do—and if they are kind OOC, then hell yes I will take that extra time. The community as a whole is very welcoming though, so there are always plenty of other people willing to do the work and take people under their wing. If the player is kind, the community will go the extra mile for them and move mountains. Attitude is everything, and people can always learn and grow. I’d rather play with an RPer with weak writing and a good attitude than an RPer with beautiful prose and an ugly personality. Edited August 11, 2018 by Viscount Rhi-Rhi 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Popular Post Morrigan 1,825 Admin Popular Post Share Posted August 11, 2018 4 hours ago, Bezyle said: It single-handedly defines my reasons for having a word count, because to me being conscious of a word count means you are at least paying attention to the words you use and how you use them. Before anyone assumes I'm calling anyone out this is the work of one of my students, I have their permission to post this so others have something to compare. She has since improved drastically. I didn't reply in the other thread because it's specifically about larger word counts but I will reply here as this is about word counts in general. That post single-handedly only shows me that the person is unaware of how to properly write a paragraph. That entire message appears to me like a chat post. I use stars in chats to define actions because that's what they are there for (or used to be, now the do italics). I don't feel for a moment that no word counts are weaker minds. That's like saying that people that prefer to read young adult books are weak in mind because they don't like to read things with more depth made for adults. It's insulting because if the story is good, the story is good it shouldn't matter if it's Harry Potter or the Legend of Drizzt. Each Fantasy books with magic one written with children/young adults in mind and the other adults. I feel you are defining people by a small (and I mean extremely small) segment of writers that don't know any better when blaming them for liking smaller or shorter word counts. I've roleplayed with some of the most wordy and prolific writers and they give me 1200 beautiful prose in which they only give me one thing to reply to and they expect me to give them 1200 words back and I balk at them because the only thing my character thinks is, "Hell no. I'm not going with that person ANYWHERE! Why are they fucking talking about the fucking drapes?" and that's my response to a 1200 word post because none of it was content, all of it was eloquently said words, hell I'd even be happy with some body language but I normally don't get that, I get head thoughts and descriptions of surroundings with some dialog and not just any dialog. I don't like to read Tolkien for the exact same reason. I don't need a chapter describing a fucking tower, thank you. As for your questions, I'm happy to tell you. I lose roleplay partners because they have it in their head that they need to post long posts and so it takes them a while and then they stress themselves out and then never post. I lose roleplay partners because I lose interest in threads because they take so long to make long posts that I lose interest in the plot or story or my character has moved on. I see roleplayers leave sites because the posting is slow and their plot doesn't progress so they go somewhere else for it. I actually see more no word count sites succeed because they enforce that it's no word count, not because of the quality but because of the progression that no word count provides. Sure I could knock out a 150 word post in 15 minutes but I could knock out 15 50 word posts in 30 which if you do the math is over 4 times as many words in only two times the time with less words "per post". My least favorite thing about long-form posting is that I get no where. I've been on so many sites over the last 20 years that I've roleplayed that I remember staying with sites and actually skipping over large plot points for my characters because they moved so slow and everyone is too busy to post 300-600+ words and well this thing should already happened and so I have to just pretend it already happened and so I get screwed out of a huge character developing plot point for my character because everyone else is "too busy" to post a "good amount". I have roleplays, I mean I still have their history, that it would take weeks... months to get through an hour worth of character interaction where I can post an hours worth of character interaction within a few days with shorter word counts. I think the "quality" that word counts bring is subjective to what you want out of a roleplay. I want a story that moves forward and that changes. I don't want to sit here staring at the same story plot point after 6 months. 1 6 Profile set made by myself and original Artwork by Fae Merriman, my daughter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Byrn 102 Share Posted September 8, 2018 So far... after a year from opening Marked as a 'no word count' site... I have gotten so much MORE out of writing collaboratively with others. The freedom of no word counts is replaced by the challenge to do your best and strive for improvement. I want to run an active and fun site with no limitations, boundaries, or requirements in that respect. Lack of word count does not prevent those who like them from using one for themselves, either. As a staff member I have no desire to track word counts or message someone who might be a brilliant writer over how many words they use. If i were to ever message someone about their posts, it better be about power playing or unfairness towards other characters/members. OR it better be to congratulate them on how great they are doing, this is precisely why I have a 'spotlight' channel in discord for EVERYONE to share things each other have written. I only have time for building up my members. And generally speaking... no word count does not in any way correlate with illiteracy. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey 9 Share Posted September 15, 2018 As a long-form PBEM writer I find the best posts are somewhere between 500-1000 words, unless it's a joint post with several participants working on a major plot point, in which case it can happily run longer. At the moment I'm trying to cut out the stuff that doesn't need to be there. I guffawed loudly at @Morrigan's line here: I don't like to read Tolkien for the exact same reason. I don't need a chapter describing a fucking tower, thank you. It's too easy in longer formats to write self-indulgently: descriptions of riding in a lift, long-winded recaps of plot points and extended 'hello, how are you?' scenes are particular irritations. Is it moving the plot forward? Does it add to the colour or sentiment of what you're writing? Do you really need an adjective for every noun? Do you really need to use that adjective every time you describe your character? It helps me a lot to remember the purpose of an RPG: mutual enjoyment. Sure, write what you want to write, but reading your work has to be an enjoyable experience for your fellow players. And on that note, I'm going to shut up now! grin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAD 40 Share Posted September 16, 2018 I like having my own personal word count goals, but I don't like to enforce that rule on others. I feel like players should be allowed to write as much as they feel like. I treat roleplaying as a game, a way to pass the time. There are moments I like to challenge myself, and that's where setting my own word count goals to come into play, but like I said, I rather keep that just for me. If I see my partner go all out and make me a massive post I put in the effort to do the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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