Staffing Word Counts Part 2

[CovertSphinx 710]

It was @Rune's topic here:  

 

And because of it I have a related question, BUT specifically for the people that DO like word counts. 

I want to know:

 

WHY do you like having an official minimum word counts? 

As staff, how heavily/what method do you use to enforce said word count? Do you like, go wordcount every post that's made? Is there like, a soft range of "close enough" that you accept? things like that. 

If somebody fails to make the cut, how do you go about getting them to write more? Is it a 3 strikes thing? What's the punishment/frequency. 

[Deep Sea 326]

Warning: Total bitch mode ahead

 

WHY do you like having an official minimum word counts? 

Because I put a certain amount of effort into writing, and maybe this is selfish, but I don't really wanna write with people who aren't in my league.  I gave you a perfectly good couple of paragraphs and you respond with a single sentence? You gonna come into my house and disrespect me like that? I made this fucking thread and I will take you out of it. Respect me, respect the other players, and at least PRETEND you care enough to write even a vaguely similar amount as the rest of the group.

 

As staff, how heavily/what method do you use to enforce said word count? Do you like, go wordcount every post that's made? Is there like, a soft range of "close enough" that you accept? things like that. 

 

I just do a visual skim, which is why I really don't like fancy post layouts. If your writing occupies roughly the same amount of visual space as my own, then you're fine.

 

If somebody fails to make the cut, how do you go about getting them to write more? Is it a 3 strikes thing? What's the punishment/frequency. 

Let them fall behind. I've been around the block enough times to know that people who know they aren't writing enough will feel bad about it, and eventually drop out of the RP. Why do I need to say anything when I can let their own guilt do the work? They'll notice the players start to avoid them, they might even notice some posts start to get passive-aggressively longer. The community will do the hard work of pushing back and retaliating. The player almost always takes the hint.

 

There's two exceptions:

• The post is short because it's an intentional stylistic choice
• The player's native tongue isn't English.

[Rune 1,099]

Just assume everything I say is going to piss someone off, since that's been the trend lately.

 

Firstly: @Deep Sea - Have my adopted babies.

 

I like word counts because I've been dropped shitty one liners that offer absolutely nothing to the thread far too many times. I like to read and visualize the world. I like to paint a picture and have my partner(s) help me doing so. I don't want to be the one carrying the thread. And by having a word count I ensure that they are giving me at least 250 words to read and hopefully that means they aren't just saying "no" then rehashing my post. Thus far, its proven very effective.

 

How do I enforce said word count? 

I don't. 

I trust my members to obey the rules they agreed to. If another member comes to me going "Uh, Bill only wrote 50 words..." its because its so dramatically shorter than what they're used to that they noticed and checked. Then, I approach Bill and remind him that we have a word count and ask him to please edit his post and make sure he hits it in the future. In 4 years, I've had to do this, maybe, twice. 

 

I've not had to worry about punishment or whatever. They've fixed it. Or they've left. Either way, the problem is solved. They usually realize that the board isn't a good fit for them or they up their words. We totally understand if someone isn't used to hitting a minimum and we aren't going to chew them out, just politely correct them and ask them to fix it in the future. 

 

Just because we ask for a minimum doesn't mean we have sticks up our asses. (Not saying you're implying this, @CovertSphinx.) It means we have expectations and, probably, have been given the shit end of the stick too many times when it comes to replies.

 

Now, all that said: I'm perfectly fine with writing shorter posts when the situation demands it. I RP on Discord and because I reply on my phone a lot the posts are often much smaller than they would be if I was at my computer. And I make sure I have partners that know that's what they're going to get and are okay with it.

[Bezyle 31]

To put it as simply as I can. I have word counts to avoid a post written like so.

 

"“What do I do I have to scream for help but what if someone who wants to hurt people for. I reason hears me and blows up this crumbles building just to kill me”. *Is trapped under a building that has been blown up and tries to scream for help but no sound comes out of my mouth. All I feel is fear of dying underneath all the on brick and stone I slowly start to move stuff trying to get free and the stones collapse on me knocking me unconscious and Covering my body in stones and metal slowly starting to crush me*"

 

Higher word count filters out people who role-play like this. That may or may not seem like a rather harsh opinion. I want everyone to know that given the time I will be a mentor, but an unwillingness to adapt to other standards leaves no room for my sympathy. It's frustrating because I know there are great writers that don't like word counts which is why I am very flexible with word counts once we know what you are capable of.

 

As for how I enforce word count, I actually don't. It's all a bluff to be completely honest. However if a member files a complaint I will investigate and the council will discuss and make a decision. Everything is a case by case basis.

[Elena 546]

WHY do you like having an official minimum word counts? 

 

Because I hate one-liners with fiery passion. Even if you don't have much inspiration for the thread, if you receive more than one line, you can give back more than one line. If you are posting once a week or less, at least give me something to work with! I had been frustrated several times when, after waiting for a post for 10+ days, or sometimes for 3 weeks, I got only the tiniest paragraph... Come on, I have left you all the time in the world for a proper post!

 

I also agree with @Rune:  "I like to read and visualize the world. I like to paint a picture and have my partner(s) help me doing so. I don't want to be the one carrying the thread."

 

As staff, how heavily/what method do you use to enforce said word count? Do you like, go wordcount every post that's made? Is there like, a soft range of "close enough" that you accept? things like that. 

 

I would never go word count, and my site's official minimum is three phrases. You can make them as long or as short as you wish. If it happens that your post didn't give me enough to work with for that specific scene (and it can happen sometimes, even for people who write 3 paragraphs, if they stopped the scene too early, e.g., or if they missed an important clue), I write you a PM or a FB message and I tell you politely which is the problem, asking you for a clarification more or a phrase more. But it is never in connection to a word count, it's in connection with the scene missing something I need in my next post.

 

If somebody fails to make the cut, how do you go about getting them to write more? Is it a 3 strikes thing? What's the punishment/frequency. 

 

I think everyone can meet 3 phrases, even if English is not their mother tongue (mine isn't either!). Punishments don't happen. I am offering support in articles how to develop a post in general and concrete suggestions for the post in question. I don't believe in punishment. I believe in working together and improving. A storyteller can be born. A writer isn't born. Is constantly developing.

Edited August 10, 2018 by Elena

[Shades 676]

Weighing in as well because I'm one of those 'horrible' people who like word counts. 😉

 

WHY do you like having an official minimum word counts? 

Basically for the same reason everyone else. To avoid spending time setting the scene and giving my partner at least a solid paragraph to get this in return:

 

"Okay"

 

It has happened to me, and no, it wasn't enough in that case to advance our roleplay, since it wasn't just a conversation, there was a lot going on. Had it been enough, I would have rolled with it, but I would still have disliked it. So, I don't want people - either me or other site members - to craft a post that advances what's going on to be given basically nothing.

 

As staff, how heavily/what method do you use to enforce said word count? Do you like, go word count every post that's made? Is there like, a soft range of "close enough" that you accept? things like that. 

Most of the time, unless someone who's writing with them comes to me, I just eyeball the post to see if it's roughly in the same range posts that make the cut are. If it seems to be vastly under the count, I'll check. I'd say 10 under is nothing to even bat an eye at (I say that because I once got a warning on a site because I went two words under, and that feels very heavy-handed to me). Over that, I'll have to look at the post itself to see if it gives the other writer/s enough to work with.

 

If somebody fails to make the cut, how do you go about getting them to write more? Is it a 3 strikes thing? What's the punishment/frequency. 

Unless the post in question is vastly under the count, I'll just point it out on a PM and ask them to write a little more next time. If the post is so short it doesn't get even close (as in, less than 1/3 of the count), I'll ask them to please edit their post. The person's reaction to my request will definitely influence the way we move forward. If they are jerks about it, throw a tantrum and act like they are being personally targeted when it's a site rule, I may give them the "I don't think this place is a good fit for you" line right away. If they're chill about it and say they just need to ease into it, or are pretty new to having a word count, I'll be happy to work with them on a timeline and ask the other writers to be a little patient.

[Elena 546]

3 hours ago, SithLordOfSnark said:

 Even in response to my 50+ word posts, my writing partners give me somewhere between 200 and 500 words.

 

I agree. But give them only one line, 5-=6 words, and you'll see they can't. I am against one liners. I am also able to give 150-300 words as a reply to 50 words (which might be my required 3 phrases or a bit more). 

[Rhindeer 217]

22 minutes ago, Elena said:

 

I agree. But give them only one line, 5-=6 words, and you'll see they can't. I am against one liners. I am also able to give 150-300 words as a reply to 50 words (which might be my required 3 phrases or a bit more). 

I mean, that may be true of your partners?

 

But I'm looking at one of my own threads right now where my post was this, an 8 word post!

 

Quote

So much for vulnerability.

"Uhhh...what? No...why?"

 

 

And the post I got back was over 100 words. xD My own post isn't much at all. Buuut, again, this was a response to a question a character asked, in the middle of a thread that's 100 posts long, and that thread is FULL of one-liners. And it's also full of posts that are 300 - 600 words long. It's all over the place. |:

 

I really wish we could post examples somewhere of threads that show this stuff in action.

Edited August 10, 2018 by Viscount Rhi-Rhi

[CovertSphinx 710]

19 hours ago, Rune said:

 

Just because we ask for a minimum doesn't mean we have sticks up our asses. (Not saying you're implying this, @CovertSphinx.) It means we have expectations and, probably, have been given the shit end of the stick too many times when it comes to replies.

❤️ Don't worry, I didn't take any implicated offense. And I love that you checked up on me regarding how the conversation could be read ❤️. 

 

I wanted to ask the group of "Pro Stated Minimum" separately of the main discussion, just to keep the two different conversations from crossing each other and making a mess. And the reason WHY I asked, was based on my RP past history. 

 

Like many of you have stated, I too have been in a zillion threads where my partner(s) would respond with unhelpful and non-contributing one-liners. In the past I've tried implementing small minimum counts (250 words, or shorter similar to @Elena's minimum) and had nearly immediately seen drops in memberbase and new joinings. Despite the fact that most of our "core" members all consistently wrote a couple of paragraphs per post (at least, 90-something % of posts). 
 

I eventually did away with a minimum "rule" and decided to let the community sort of, filter things on it own (mostly because it's less admin work for me). However I was curious if there was some sort of.... trick or Nuance to making it work. It seems to evidently be more-or-less a stroke of luck of the right people finding your site, like most anything else ❤️   Even though I manually thanked all the posts, I still wanna give everyone an official thankyou for queuing in and giving me insight into everyone's heads. 

Edited August 10, 2018 by CovertSphinx

[Rune 1,099]

To those that get good posts with only a couple words: good for you. I've not had a good experience with it. I'm glad you have a situation you like.

 

It still boils down to our not wanting small posts. Quality or not, that isn't the point. We already had the topic pointing out that us word counters are wrong. (Said with humor since I apparently piss people off with my opinions.)

 

If the setting calls for it I don't  mind a smaller post. I've rp'd o er so many mediums that a difference in length is expected. My Discord posts are much shorter than my forum ones. My mmo ones are frequently just dialogue. 

[Indy 23]

Throwing my two cents in, I've had word counts on previous sites and the reality was that I never really had to enforce it. Once the awkward "just started" period was over everyone elses posts created the "norm," which was at the word count or more. So my attitude is very much like some have previously stated, those who can't keep up will leave regardless of word count enforcement. That's from a staffer perspective.

 

From a personal perspective, if I give someone 300-500 plus words, I'd like to recieve something in return that shows them actually responding and reacting to mine. A few months ago I tried this style that was very economical, zero internal thoughts, all action and dialogue. This meant the posts tended to be short, rarely breaking 100 words. Among people who also use that style, it works. It took me a while to get used to it, but it turned out to be really enjoyable, but it isn't "my style". I guess I'm thinking of it as rewarding like with like. If you get a couple of paragraps, return a couple at the least.

[Sage 289]

I usually don't like word counts, but occasionally (like right before Nano or something where I'm looking for a challenge) I'll join a site with a word count. Why? Because of consistency! Consistency with posting, or just writing in general, is something I struggle with, and having a word count helps make writing at a certain level a habit. I will inevitably fall off the bandwagon because word counts eventually make me want to bash a keyboard over somebody's head, but when I go out of my way to find a site that requires one, it's for myself rather than other people. Honestly, unless I've been rping with someone for a long time my expectations of their writing is very low to begin with so I'm not usually offended by one-liners or my effort not being mirrored back. 

[Dragon 673]

On 8/10/2018 at 2:21 PM, Elena said:

But give them only one line, 5-=6 words, and you'll see they can't

 

Not necessarily. It depends on who one is writing with, and how the mechanics of that particular game work. @Morrigan and I give each other single sentence replies, then receive 100+ word responses from the other all the time. Almost daily, in fact. 

 

She's given me a literal one word reply and gotten back a few hundred in response. 

 

I also know for a fact that almost any single one of our roleplays (save for maybe the one we just started last week) has more story progression in anywhere from a month to a year than sites I've participated on for up to 4  years.

[Panda 3]

I don’t like word count minimums unless they are lower. Something that guarantees at least a paragraph, but doesn’t force you to write three paragraphs when the content doesn’t have enough to do so without forcing. It helps, because of shitty one liners. But there is a balance that can be reached.