So, the Pern fandom has community forums and Discords and such and its nice! Considering the size difference between that fandom and others I can understand why others don't... But screw that! https://discord.gg/zA3TKGj Let's chill!

I mean, my forum is Victorian fantasy. It's not quite modern, either, but it's also no longer medieval-esque. There are steampunk elements and yet it's not full-steam, either. Fantasy has this ability to overlap time periods and genres, so there's nothing wrong with hanging out in more than one place to talk about what you love!

I would suggest that it's a blend genre. Part Modern Fantasy, part Futuristic Sci-Fi, yet 100% awesomesauce

I'm not really sure if I actually fit into this coterie since our site is science fantasy and has a few modern elements, like social media and a few high-tech devices, but it's still a lot of fantasy and mixture stuff, like having old monarchies around, castles, people in armor and melee weapons, old-fashioned firearms etc. It's a bit like Final Fantasy where you throw both old and modern stuff in. Plus, it's not Earth and I feel like you usually speak of Earth if you mean "modern". Anyway, does this kinda fantasy still count as modern fantasy?

In my humble opinion, it is a good trope to have. I'm a huge fan of the (Old) World of Darkness RPGs by White Wolf, in which Vampires and Werewolves are mortal enemies. I see vampires as manipulative, cold, calculating creatures, while werewolves are impulsive and rebellious. It's a clash between two different cultures, two different societies, and even two different lifestyles. Drama is usually very good in role-playing, thus pitching vampires VS werewolves is a quick, easy way to achieve that. I personally dislike roleplays that are too social in nature. I'd rather play friction, angst, confrontations, drama and action. Something dynamic that would keep me on my toes and captivate me. Vampires vs Werewolves has been such a staple for me, ever since I first started playing Vampire: The Masquerade. So that's something that has been stuck in my brain for years.

We have a book list, so I'd like to expand and ask what TV series' you guys recommend to watch. Even though it got canceled already, I'd say FOX's "The Exorcist" was an excellent example of supernatural things undermining the fabric of what is perceived as normal society. "Charmed" (the original series) was also top tier for its day.

@Deep Sea I think I just died and went to Urban Fantasy Heaven. There aren't enough emojis in the world for me to react with.

@Dragon TBH that's the exact type of response I was looking for with my inquiry lol Though, I gotta say, the mini anthology less has given me a few ideas for some new character dynamics.....

I'm just going to chime in with nerd knowledge on the "Why" of it as I possess it, here, because I don't have particularly strong feelings about the cliche. It can be fun done right, but eh. If anyone has sources to the contrary bring them on. I'm just sharing what I've come across researching things for RP and other projects. The werewolf vs. vampire trope first emerged in the early 90's. Prior to that there isn't really any cultural or lore/myth reference to the pair being natural enemies . There was a1987 episode of Ghostbusters No One Comes to Lupusville in which a conflict between a town full of werewolves and invading vampires broke out. That was a bit of a different trope, though, as there was no pre-disposition to animosity; and in that when a vampire bit a werewolf, the werewolf became a vampire and vice versa. Vampire the Masquerade is the first media source to contain a vampire vs. werewolf relation (or, arguably, World of Darkness from which it stemmed from). There are a few predating media sources that contain some kind of werewolf vs vampire instance, but no ongoing animosity between the species. As an aside, up until the end of the 19th century there were relatively wide-spread beliefs that when killed, if the corpse was not disposed of properly, a werewolf would return as a sort of vampire. The Greeks, for example, believed that they would return as wolves or hyenas that haunted battlefields to drink the blood of those killed in battle. In Eastern Europe werewolves and vampires were perceived to be more or less different breeds of the same species - like how a Great Dane and a Corgi are both dogs, but different. In other parts of Europe there were beliefs of "undead" werewolves - people who died unbaptized or during acts of sin. These people were thought to drink blood in the form of a wolf at night then return to their human corpse form come dawn. (Woodward, Ian (1979). The Werewolf Delusion.) I think that Underworld ultimately stemmed the rampant werewolf vs vampire trope in 2003. It existed prior, because of VTM which it was heavily influenced by, but it really took off in media and RP after the release of the film.

In my rooms, well, the first one, we've had were and shape-shifter characters that interacted all the time. We didn't have a 'us v them' for them. Now in my new room, it can be played that they might not like each other, but it's not written in stone that they are mortal or half-mortal/immortal enemies. One of my vampire characters adopted children that later became skinwalkers, so there is a lot of moving and shaking with the characters. To me, there's enough personality conflict to go with any character without adding a mandatory they hate each other kinda thing. In fact, we had a group called the League of the Night Guardians, they were various species that worked together to combat 'The Corporation." The Corporation was filled with evil devils and not good intent. They would kidnap or otherwise subjugate a vamp, were, human, selkie anything they could get their hands on and experiment on them and using the powers of science to create super humans. That was fun rp. But, back to topic...I'd rather not have that as built into the play. If Joe vampire hates Joanne Werewolf, I'd rather it be because they just don't get along, not because they are forced into it before the play begins.

I agree. VampsxWolves are so overdone, and most of the time, there's no real rationale behind it. We have inter-faction disagreements - our first major site plot was wolf on wolf, not wolf on vamp. In fact, our vampires are so disorganized (on purpose) that having a vampxwolf disagreement probably wouldn't have been a good place to start. I will admit that I did like how Underworld really structured the dynamics between vampires and werewolves. Having the werewolves being seen as "lesser" or "slaves" and then having some higher up vampire have a romance with one? Yeah, that's hella good stuff right there. I think that if you want to make it work, you have to find a reason to make it work that isn't just a natural enemy type deal. Vampires and werewolves are individuals, first and foremost, so why can't they have a basic conflict like someone called someone else a dick? Or someone took someone else's significant other? Or you know what I'm saying - something simple like that. It doesn't have to be some catastrophic "Enemies from the beginning of time" ordeal. Their conflict could also be based on an ego trip. Maybe the vampires think they are better than the werewolves. Maybe the werewolves think they are better than the vampires. Technically, it would probably be some type of discrimination of vampires versus werewolves, but I guess it would depend on what made the vampires or werewolves think they were better than the other faction. Anyway, if there was some obtuse reason, I could get behind that and play out a story that proves that reason incorrect. I hope this makes sense. I'm a little loopy and tired today.

I don't have a war on my site as it were, and we do have both races. It's more a general distrust between them. Then again most all of the races don't trust the vampires in general. They can be a shifty bunch. And at one point they did nearly take over the city and throw everyone else out (back in '30's). In general though, I'm not a fan of vampire vs werewolves because it has been a bit of everywhere you go. I think most of the time it's just a way to have a simple protagonist/antagonist system without having to build too much lore or trying to find a way to bring about a decent antagonist. That's just my thought on originals. On fandoms, many are pretty much set in stone due to the fandom (Underworld for example) and have to follow that. That's off the top of my head though. I like my way and how my lore is. Don't need war to not trust someone.

To be honest, I've only EVER seen VampxWolf in the context of "theses guys don't like each other and that's just the way they are". Up until this point, the only reasonable assumption I could make (as far as logical context) was that since both traditional vamps and traditional werewolves both feasted on humans, there would be a natural competition between the two for food resources.

I'm personally clueless as to why this is a modern fantasy default. I don't think it's inherently good or bad, just handled well or poorly on different sites. By now, definitely cliche and overdone in my opinion. But it's not going to make me shy away from joining a site, or leave it if I've joined already. And if a site has this conflict, I ask why. Personal conflicts have a reason, tiny though it may be, and so should bigger ones in my opinion. Unfortunately I'd say a good 80-90% of the time the 'reason' is "well it's just like that but nobody knows why". I try not to be like this, but if your site has werewolf/vampire wars for no reason, I assume that you're just tossing it in there because everybody does it and you don't care enough to find that reason. Give me one! However shitty or flimsy it may be! Maybe the werewolves thought the vampires were trying to kill them off generations ago and the war's lasted ever since. Maybe a werewolf leader stuck his tongue out at a vampire hundreds of years ago and the vampires never got over it. Maybe the vampires think they're better from the get-go because they're immortal. Not only does this reason flesh out the background of the site, it also gives me a better idea of how my werewolf or vampire character will react to the war. If it started out with something serious, my character's due to be a lot more invested in the drama. But if it's something that could have been smoothed over by now or if it's just done "because things are like that", then my character's probably not going to care if they associate with a member of the other species. Plus it's always fun when there's two different sides of the story, because way down the road you have lasting effects of that discrepancy.

Oh man, I love urban fantasy. I just feel like some stories are a little... A little scared to get wild. I want to see fae as lawyers and ambassadors with hellish levels of diplomatic immunity. Feuds between old money dragons that hoard gold and artifacts stolen during wars, and new money dragons that support crypto currency. Hermes as the god of email and IMs? Fuck yes. Navy SEALs who are all beefcake mermen. My holy grail would be something like the popular post about the autonomous car trapped by a salt circle. Cyberpunk, but with magitek. Programming is magical runes studied by the finest wizards at MIT. Huge debates about the complexity of golems and if slapping an animation spell on a suit of armor is really the same as programming a giant robot with subroutines and AI. More dragons. Oppression of the illiterate masses, aka those who don't know how to program. Modern blood magic that relies on human trafficking and slave trade. The president is a lizard in human skin aka a dragon. Balkanization of various countries based on magical races as well as ethnicities. Maybe something about dragons thrown in for good measure, idk.

I like it to be modern but also magical! I like magic elements, mages/witches, different types of creatures (playable or not). I don't really love the whole super faction versus other super faction trope but I do like having hunters taking out supers. We also have hunters that hunt HUNTERS. They need a special name. Right now, the characters have just been calling them Hunter Hunters (which is also kinda funny too, so...) I'm not big on netting the big creativity either so we allow people to make shit like demi-gods and dragons. Let's go crazy and throw in all the fun!

A very common trope in modern fantasy seems to be some weird, primal, natural-enemy type war/dislike between Vampires and Warewolves (when the two exist in the same universe together). So.....WHY? What are your guys thoughts on why they make such a good/bad/cliche` pairing, what reasons do you normally see them "fighting" for that in your opinion work or don't work, and...well...general thoughts on the said dynamic.

We haven't even been open a month yet but we would love to have more similarly themed affiliates! http://themarkedrp.jcink.net/index.php?showtopic=48 We have both scrolling and static.

This'll be for hoarding modern fantasy specific topsites, resource sites, etc. Good places to list our sites and the like. http://topurbanfantasy.gotop100.com/

I feel like any urban fantasy should typically have at least one supernatural creature to deal with. Most tend to go with Vampires and Werewolves, my board is no different although we fully intend to expand on this in the future. Also, I have noticed that most allow for expansion of the plot through their members. It could be something as simple as creating factions or groups that stir up extra drama for the board or even bigger such as creating new races. Perhaps that's why I tend to prefer this genre is that it feels like there is more collaboration overall that goes on rather than simply between individual characters on the board.

I love it when boards have races for mythological creatures that are either completely original or based on the less than typical ones. I've seen and joined some that have had Fae and mermaids, which are always fun. I have yet to notice any with wendigo but perhaps I'm simply not looking hard enough? I used to be on a board that was largely member driven and we were able to create a race of our own after a lot of thorough research and hard work. It was a lot of fun and interesting to see what people came up with. I'm hoping that I'll be able to do the same on my own board at some point.

I never did get to this. Hi there. Admin on Resolution. It's been my first go at admin'ing for myself after so many people telling me just do one for myself if I wanted something. It's small and it's good. I've been staff on other boards and sometimes bounce between sometimes chat (taking a break from that) and forums. I prefer forums with my work schedule though. Though I'm learning a lot reading and interacting when I can with everyone.

First of all, can I just say wow, so many of these sites are so interesting and look gorgeous to boot. Yes, yes I have been clicking links and snooping. You're all such clever clogs you. Lovely stuff. Personally, I hail from the Irenic Institute. We've been around since February 2016 but cheated a bit and shifted our focus to PBeM for about 9 months of that. We wandered back to the forum a couple of months ago and are planning on staying there. We're not a huge site but have a good core of writers and have recently opened our doors to new members again. It'll be interesting to see what sort of folks we attract. The majority of our current members are 30+ or thereabouts. They've all played in numerous other games/genres/styles and have settled on what they like. I think that shows through in the genuinely relaxed and supportive atmosphere in the community. Everyone's outgrown the drama and just want o get on with enjoying the what they're doing. Haha! Which makes us all sound like a budge of fuddy-duddies but that's really not the case. Anyway, I plan on continuing my delving into everyone else's sites. Thank you to everyone that has shared so far!

I know this topic has been quiet for a while now but it's such a good question and got me thinking. For me, an urban fantasy has to first and foremost be urban. Otherwise, it's just fantasy and you can shove all kinds of prefixes on that to differentiate. But, again this is just my feeling, what really defines a good urban fantasy is a strong urban setting. Oh, you can wander off into the deepest, darkest sticks as well but you always have to end back in the urban centre. And if that urban centre has a unique feel about it then I'm all the more for it. The fantasy element can come in a variety of flavours and if the plot is interesting enough then I'm willing to give it a go. I have admittedly grown a little bored if the standard vampires vs werewolves theme with humans caught in the middle. These days I'm more about myths and more ‘monstery’ monsters in my fantasy. I like mixing mythology up just for a taste of something a bit different from the common European or classical stuff that seems to dominate. The latter maybe makes it more horror? Which is why I always get so frustrated by all the genre labels. I normally stick with the good old umbrella term fantasy which by definition is simply the imagining of impossible or improbable things. But I do think there needs to be a pervading sense of the dangerous throughout it all though. An undefined feeling of malevolence as you walk down that dark street at night. Your hackles should raise when you're typing up that ancient translation. I'm not saying that magic and technology can't mix - quite the opposite in fact - but they shouldn't be happy bedfellows. The ancient, arcane, supernatural whatever should be threatening no matter what form it takes. I'm with Mistress Of The Obvious on this one. The supernatural should delve into and reveal the darker side of human nature. The hidden monsters, both internal and external, and the struggle against them. All the while, I enjoy mixing the magical impossibilities with the modern mundane. For instance, my latest project had a necromancer barista who would give his favourite customers a jolt of life energy with their espresso to perk them up. An AI housed in a metal golem, effectively making a sentient robot. Basically, grab a well developed urban setting (imagined or otherwise), add a dash of magic, some fantastical creatures of whatever flavour you fancy and jumble them together in (hopefully) interesting ways. Throw in character-driven plots and a few unexpected twists (preferably caused by past mistakes or covered up secrets)and I am there.

Oooh good thread. To add to the others, the Kate Daniels series by Ilona Andrews. The Otherworld series by Kelly Armstrong. I recently picked up Kim Harrison's Hallowed series but haven't gotten to start it yet. Any thoughts?