Staffing Dealing with A Messy Situation

[Achera 22]

Alright, so I have no idea how to put this lightly, so I’ll be frank. I’m looking for feedback on how to handle this, not plan reactions with no real insight please.

Unfortunately my staff has to deal with a situation where one of our members who is around 23-24 is dating a minor who is 17. While this is typically something I wouldn’t care too much about, it’s the fact that the elder party has admitted to writing explicit material with the minor. To boot, the minor is also on our site. While this activity hasn’t been found on our site, it’s the fact that they have done it that is worrying. We run a 17+ site that does allow explicit material, but it is heavily regulated so minors cannot partake or even see it. Considering this member has decided to do this elsewhere, it’s a bit concerning on a site where it is possible to have a minor, even if they are a year off from the legal age. 

So this begs the question of what should be done? Since this isn’t found on our site, should we even do anything? My staff believes that this is illegal due to it being an online relationship so the Age of Consent rules that are typically by state do not apply. It become the standard 18+ because we have software platforms like Jcink that regulate people who can even visit the front page if they’re a minor. So our assumption is that this is illegal. I’m in the personal mindset to ban the older party, if not both, because I see it more as a liability for members who may be a minor to have what we believe is a predatory behavior.

Any feedback is appreciated!

[Rune 1,099]

Are they admitting to this in a public place where everyone can see? If so, then I'd be more inclined to act. Then I'd ban the elder, explaining why, that their actions are illegal in most places, make others uncomfortable and reflects badly on the site. Nevermind that it could get your board shut down should they decide to cross that line.

 

Do you have pm logs on? Just to make sure they aren't bringing it to your turf.

 

If they aren't talking about it where others can see, I'd simply keep an eye on matters. Given that it's public knowledge, my bet is on them not hiding it. Not that they should but dragging others into the potential discomfort is where the problem lies.

[Anonymous 234]

On the legality of the issue at hand, here's a link to the US Department of Justice's Citizen's Guide to Child Pornography. It's a mouthful, I know, but it's well worth a read. In this day and age where adults can access minors online in public and private settings, it's really important that we protect minors. I've had friends who were groomed by predators using sexually explicit art, both written and non. A direct quote that's of consequence here is: "Additionally, the age of consent for sexual activity in a given state is irrelevant; any depiction of a minor under 18 years of age engaging in sexually explicit conduct is illegal." Romeo and Juliet laws don't apply here

 

I'm fully in the ban boat, since this is an adult targeting and participating in sexually explicit content with the minor. I'm also in the boat of reporting them to the authorities, because this borderline grooming of a minor (with the adult party knowing and ignoring the law). A minor is a minor, regardless of if they're 13 or 17.

Anonymous poster hash: 438c4...e81

[CovertSphinx 710]

Your site is 17+, and the "minor" in question is 17. The person in question does not post explicit content on YOUR site, where you restrict the expletive stuff to 18+ (because that's where Jcink makes the cutoff so you just adopt that age as your cut off to make things easy). 

 

 Honestly? Unless they are breaking YOUR site rules, there's really nothing you need to do. It's not morally "more correct" to take one action over the other. 

 

If you want to ban them for what they do on other sites that HAVE allowed the behavior, go for it. You don't have to put up with anything you aren't comfortable with.

Edited January 1, 2018 by CovertSphinx

[Achera 22]

@Rune

 

They haven't admitted it publicly, but to one of the staff members. I believe no one on site knows other than staff and they were originally trying to hide it, but we could see that something was up to know that they were at least dating. It wasn't until today that my co learned about the explicit stuff. They have managed to keep it off site since I don't see anything in the pm logs and their thread is pg, so I can't complain on that front. 

 

@CovertSphinx

 

The explicit stuff isn't limited to 18+ for ease or else we'd open it up to everyone. It's more for legality reasons because the law can be questionable when dealing with the Internet when it comes to age restrictions on explicit material; hence this thread. Like Anon said, it doesn't matter if they're 13 or 17, they are still a minor. It's a lot more about worrying about liability since as of now, like I told Rune, nothing is posted on our site, our discord, etc. So it should be fine. A lot of what I'm seeing here is what I expected; which is if you don't feel it's right, just get rid of them. Your board, you do what you want. 

 

This thread is to help my co-admin since they're on the fence and this is a close friend so it's a lot harder to make a decision on the matter.  Plus, it's good to hear feedback from the RPG community on how either they would deal with it or just general advice <3 I appreciate it all.

 

Edited January 1, 2018 by Achera

[CovertSphinx 710]

If your rule is 18+, your rule is 18+ regardless of why. If they aren't breaking your reals, you admin shouldn't have a need to worry unless she had reason to believe something nefarious was going on, like human trafficking. In which case (arguing the worst case scenario), I'd want to keep my door open to the minor in case a time arises that she needs an escape. 

 

Now, as far as child pornography goes, I'm being reminded by my hubby that RPing explicit situations won't actually stick as far as legal consequences are concerned. Fictional writing does not really count as child pornography, even if one of the authors is below "legal" age. So your coadmin doesnt actually have to worry about any legal repurcissions: just her own sense of moral comfortability. 

[Dragon 673]

I agree with @CovertSphinx on this one. 

 

They aren't breaking your site's rules. Since said activity doesn't occur on your site there is no liability on your part. Nor does fictional writing actually fall under the umbrella of legal consequence in regards to minors anymore than artistic nudity in classical paintings. A 13 y/o can legally go into any bookstore and buy 50 Shades of Grey, or any other sexually explicit novel. 

 

My recommendation would be to advise them not to discuss it further on your site in view of other members, and otherwise just leave it alone. If it really makes you that uncomfortable, of course you have every right to ban them; but in this situation it doesn't give any kind of moral high ground. Nothing described above actually violates any kind of legal parameters regarding minor exposure to explicit materials or even child pornography, so legally speaking they've done nothing wrong.  

[SoulsRPG 15]

I agree with what previous members say regarding your site's rules.  This member is not breaking your site's rules on your site; you aren't liable at all for this, since it's not even happening where you can see, if I read this correctly.  This is happening 'outside your domain', so to speak, and you're in the clear if you're worried about legality.

 

Now, can you still ban them, even if it's not happening on your forum?  Yes - it's you and your co-admin's site, and you can ban whomever for whatever reason.  Should you?  That's a different matter.  Personally, I wouldn't ban this person.  Are you bothered because you're afraid of legality?  Are you bothered because you find this behavior distasteful to you, morally?  Or are you bothered because you think this behavior might occur on your site?  I'd answer those questions first; legality isn't really an issue here where you're involved, but if you have reason to believe that this person will cause adult/minor sexual roleplay to occur on the site, that's another issue entirely.

 

Basically, I'd pinpoint why exactly you want to ban them.  If you truly want to, then do it - but maybe a warning might be apt first?  Remind both of these members that sexual roleplay cannot happen on your forum between an adult and a minor, and remind them of the tenuous legal ramifications of their relationship.  Make it clear that adult/minor roleplaying sexual content is not something you will tolerate on your forum, and if you feel that it's something they might start doing or causing others to do, then you'll ban them.  This way, you've laid out your expectations clearly, and they've been warned in case they did have those intentions.

[jenneral_jennson 154]

At the end of the day it's your site and if it makes you and your member base uncomfortable then do what you think is for the best. Ban them (I think both should be), keep them, but do what you think is best. 

[Bass 26]

Personally, I think it is a slippery slope to get involved with situations that don't directly effect you or your site. The reason why Jcink premium exists is not because it is illegal to write sexually explicit material, as writing is considered a grey area in the terms of depiction of minors, but because google Adsense does not allow it in their terms of service. Other than that, it is of my opinion that their personal business is their personal business until they make it my business. Now, if you feel uncomfortable, you are always well within your right to ask them to leave or ban them. I would err on the side of asking politely first and explaining yourself fully. If you find it too difficult to explain or you are hesitant to approach them about it, then perhaps that means that your stance isn't that strong and you should take some more time to really consider the options. As an admin, I often feel a closeness to my members akin to a real life friendship and sometimes get a little protective, but I also, personally, don't feel any sort of moral tug telling me that what they are doing is inherently bad and must be punished.

 

For me, it is the fact that I don't know these people that keeps me from passing judgement. I don't know how they met, what kind of relationship they actually have, what their motivations are outside of lust, or really any information that would lead me to condemn them for their actions. If they were 16 or under, I'd be more inclined to outrage, but 17 has always been a personal grey area for me when it comes to consent, and many laws give legal rights at the age of 16. I'm 100% on board with protecting minors and keeping sexual predators out of our communities, but I also like to avoid drama and enforcing my opinions on other peoples' private matters (within reason. You say s/he is really 14 and I'll get my ban hammer and a hotline number that can help).

Edited January 2, 2018 by Bass

[Achera 22]

Thank you everyone for your feedback! It's been pretty constructive and really helpful!

 

For those who are curious what we're doing, we're just going to warn the elder party that if a line is crossed on the site, it will result in a ban and we will stay out of their business because you guys are right:

Not on our site, not our problem. 

 

Thank you all again

Edited January 2, 2018 by Achera