Staffing Suspiciously Familiar

[Anonymous 234]

So on a similar vein to this thread:

 

I recently found that a new member on my site may be an old member returned, an old member banned for PMing members unsolicited and unwarranted PMs asking for inappropriate plots with canons without any of the build up.

 

That being said they don't appear to be exactly the same as before but they are exhibiting similar issues however I haven't gotten any reports of the unsolicited PMs. So it seems like they've changed however the person themselves makes me a little uncomfortable because of what happened last time.

 

Now a few things:

• I can't guarantee they are the same person.
• It's been like three or four years since this person was even on my site last.
• The username is similar (since the prior username was actually banned and is unusable).
• The IP address is in a similar subnet but not identical but appears to be the same ISP.
• The behavior is extremely similar but I could also be looking for similarities due to the issues I had with the first problem member.

 

That being said I am not sure if I should just ride it out, just get rid of them or something else entirely. If you found yourself in this situation what would you do?

Anonymous poster hash: 7221d...b7a

[txernest 0]

If you're worried about unsolicited PMs that might not be reported, perhaps turn on PM tracking for a short time (if you're on a host that supports this). Jcink and others don't support back-tracked messages so you'd only see things sent after you turned it on, but you might like that safety net. I tend to have this feature turned on when I can so that if I do get complaints I don't have to have anything forwarded to me and can check backlogs, though I don't read PMs unless there is reason for concern.

 

For safety's sake, let's work under the assumption this is not the same person.

• If this is not the same person, is the behavior still problematic?
• Do you think the problematic behavior will increase?

The best thing to do in these situations is create a list of anything problematic you've observed, and a list of the merits of keeping this player around. Weigh these against each other.

 

What would I do in this situation?

 

If the behavior is inherently problematic, send them a politely-worded warning message telling them what the issues are so that they can adjust the behavior accordingly. This usually creates one of the following responses:

• Anger; the player reacts in such a way where they create more problems, causing the need to ban them. There are a lot of people who throw screaming hissy fits when called out; these are the people that you will want to remove.
• Acceptance; the player responds with a thanks for pointing it out. This will either be followed by:
  • Passive-Aggressive acting out that will sometimes create the above situation when called out again.
  • An honest attempt to change the behavior, which is the sign of a player you might be able to keep around after all.

The one thing to always remember in these situations is that IP addresses are always changing, are sometimes used by multiple people, and could be cycled within the ISP. IP-banning is a very difficult thing because of this. Better to not assume, but still be on guard, however. You want to stop things before they get too out of hand in most cases.

 

If you can elaborate upon the case, I (or someone else) might be able to give more specific assistance.

[Death Kitten 200]

It's a hard thing to deal with. On the one hand, potentially punishing someone for the actions of another isn't good, but if they're demonstrating similar behaviors, they may end up causing similar problems. Does the behavior you are seeing include ones that lead to the problem that caused you to ban the original person? To clarify, are they only similar in personality, or are they doing something that might tip you off that they might be pming people for inappropriate threads? If only the former, just try to keep an eye on them without making a fuss — you don't want to start a witch hunt. Maybe also remind your community the best ways to handle unwanted advances, and how to best report a problem with the staff. Some people are shy about reporting problems like this, so reminding them they can and should, and how they can do so safely and privately can encourage them to do so.

 

Ultimately, this is your game, so while you can make every effort to be fair to everyone, at the end of the day, you have to be happy with your community. This means if this person is causing you stress, and disrupting things, even if it's just because they happen to be similar to someone they may not even know, you are within your right to ask them to leave.

[Morrigan 1,826]

I am all for confronting the problem. If you think it's the same person I think it's best to directly ask the person.

  

Will they admit it? Possibly not. But at least it gives you the opportunity to clear the air and discuss the potential issues that you have with their behavior. One thing that never helps? Letting a sleeping dog lie. You will then look for reasons to penalize this person as the prior member and find a reason to ban them.

  

You do want to be happy but you don't want to be known as "that site".

[Anonymous 234]

The behavior is similar and were the behaviors that ended up causing trouble.

  

 @txernest I do have the tracking on but the question is to be proactive or reactive and wait until it's been reported?

Anonymous poster hash: 7221d...b7a

[txernest 0]

Hmm... I think it depends on the kind of harassment that they perpetrated before. If it was just general over-enthusiastic plotting and the like, I think reactive is the way to go. However, if the harassment is sexual, personal, or stalker-ish in nature, I'd err on the side of proactive. Those are the kinds of things that can get dangerous for members quickly.

[Death Kitten 200]

If the actions of the person indicate a problem, instead of just reminding you of a problem player, then you absolutely should address it now. At that point, it becomes a problem with current actions, and doesn't matter if they are the past player or not. You don't need to accuse them of being the past problem player when you confront them, and even if they are, it potentially muddies the water to accuse them of it without solid evidence.

 

Focus on what they're doing now that is a problem, why it's a problem, and what you'd like to see done to resolve it. It sounds like you shouldn't even need to look at pm for evidence yet, so don't do that unless you get a complaint. Then decide what you are going to do if they don't comply or if their proposed alternative doesn't work.

[Orchid 12]

Take it from someone who's had to, and is continuing to deal with similar... a little bit of both is good. While you wait for them to actually do anything wrong, just keep an eye on their PM logs to be sure they aren't doing anything bad.

 

If they behave themselves, maybe you're just unfortunate enough to have encountered a person with similar tastes, but is a bit more tactful than that. It happens, I'm sorry to say.

 

It might be best to treat this person as a new person, and not a return-er. It absolutely boggles the mind why someone who was banned at all, would want to come back to a place they were no longer welcome at.

[Morrigan 1,826]

2 minutes ago, Death Kitten said:

Focus on what they're doing now that is a problem, why it's a problem, and what you'd like to see done to resolve it. It sounds like you shouldn't even need to look at pm for evidence yet, so don't do that unless you get a complaint. Then decide what you are going to do if they don't comply or if their proposed alternative doesn't work.

 

There is a problem with this. Most people do not report harassing behavior because they think they are either imagining, don't realize it's harassment or are afraid of persecution (re: racism for forever). So I think that this depends on the offense.

[Death Kitten 200]

1 minute ago, Morrigan said:

 

There is a problem with this. Most people do not report harassing behavior because they think they are either imagining, don't realize it's harassment or are afraid of persecution (re: racism for forever). So I think that this depends on the offense.

I get what you're saying, but if the person is already causing a problem in visible space, it should probably be addressed based on that first. If they react aggressively and defensively, checking in on the pm then or just asking them to leave, should clear it up. There is still a chance they may play nice publicly and still pm people, but most people who behave like this don't actually think there is something wrong with their behavior and won't actually hide it. OP needs to decide if this is one of those people.

 

Ultimately, there are merits to both our thoughts on this, and op should weigh what they're comfortable with against how much of a disruption this player is to decide if it warrants looking at the pm.

[VirusZero 176]

You could, for now, ignore the fact you think they're that former member back and just PM them to tell them (in no uncertain terms) to knock off the messaging people for inappropriate plots with a bit about how that's not what your site is for. Whether or not they're that same person doesn't matter that much, if they don't listen then you can just straight up ban them either way.

 

As an aside, reminder that you don't need to justify bans to anyone if you don't want to. Your site is more like your home than a business. You don't have to let someone in if you don't want to. Though even businesses can ask people to leave or deny service...

Additionally don't forget that it's not worth keeping one person if everyone else's lives are miserable. (Needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.) So if it comes down to a choice between that one member who's being dumb or the existing members... it's kind of a no brainer to boot the problem member. (They need your site more than your site needs them. Chances are they've been kicked off other sites for their behaviour too.)

So because of that you could ban them anyway.

 

[Orchid 12]

1 hour ago, VirusZero said:

As an aside, reminder that you don't need to justify bans to anyone if you don't want to. Your site is more like your home than a business. You don't have to let someone in if you don't want to. Though even businesses can ask people to leave or deny service...

 

I really do wish people would understand that this is a thing.

 

If admin's have enough cause to justify to themselves that they're banning you, it's a courtesy when you're given specific details beyond "We have to ban you because you broke rules".

[CovertSphinx 710]

I've been in a situation a few times where sitting on a potential problem for too long created a residual mess with the remaining members in the aftermath of taking care of the issue.      So I've always had to battle with the question of: "At what point does this behavior stop being merely a sour taste in my brain, and start becoming a problem I need to keep from muddying my member base?".  

  

 You can also, if you desire, choose to grab a handful of the other members (if any of them were also around when the Prior Problem occurred that would be the most desired polling group) and ask them if they've had any issues with this particular member on the recent go-around. Or in the case of other members who remember the prior issue, if they think it might be the same person as well. 

   

  

  

[Death Kitten 200]

5 minutes ago, CovertSphinx said:

 You can also, if you desire, choose to grab a handful of the other members (if any of them were also around when the Prior Problem occurred that would be the most desired polling group) and ask them if they've had any issues with this particular member on the recent go-around. Or in the case of other members who remember the prior issue, if they think it might be the same person as well.

 

While this can give OP a base on which to make sure they're not just being paranoid, and it certainly can be useful when unsure what to do, I do recommend caution and delicacy in how this is approached as it can result in a witch hunt. If you do take this approach, take care in who you select to talk to in order to make sure that it doesn't turn into gossip and harassment of this member. Problem or not, members harassing them on little to no evidence is only going to make you and your community look bad.

  

  

[Rune 1,099]

Bear in mind that a lot of members won't report something because they don't want to cause problems or feel they're making a bigger deal out of something than it is.

  

First off, operate under the assumption that this is not the same person. It might be and they might've changed, as you've said its been several years. Never know. However, if you have PM logging on and you're noticing the questionable messages, you can always contact the people that have gotten PMs and bluntly ask them if they're being made uncomfortable by the messages. "We've had a couple other people mention they're uncomfortable with XYZ messages, I was wondering if you've gotten any and if you've been made uncomfortable by so and so" or, even better, just say you've had people bring up this type of message, wondering if they got any and if they were uncomfortable with it.  Then you can ask who sent it, if its the first, etc. And then progress from there. 

  

 If anyone says yes or you spot the messages, suspicions confirmed, banned, problem solved. 

  

 The chances are that two people using the same/similar names is pretty large. The chance of two people using same/similar names and causing the same problem? Much smaller.