Staffing Word Count Doubts

[Samantha 64]

So there was just a thread about word counts (again lol) and I'd be lying if I weren't doubting having a word count. Here's the thing: I've always been on sites with word counts and the site my co-admin and I (along with our other two original admins) were on before this site shut down had a word count as well. 

 

However, I really hate this idea that people might think that because we have a word count we think that quantity = quality and that isn't the case at all. We also seriously don't enforce our word count rules when there aren't any other issues. We've had members in the past who consistently didn't meet the word count in threads (many of them with me) and I never said anything about and neither did any other members because no one ever had an issue responding to the posts. They weren't throw away posts that didn't offer any information or move the thread forward; they were good posts so there wasn't an issue. 

 

But then we get into the territory of being wishy-washy with rules and not being firm about them... But also, removing the word count seems like a bad idea because our members aren't used to responding to one liners, even the threads in our rapid-fire boards are usually 100+ words unless they're texting threads or something. And again I run into the rule-writing no-no of "We don't have a word count, but...." 

 

I don't even really know what I'm asking here, but I just hate the idea that people who don't like word counts think I, or the staff, believe their writing isn't good because they don't write long posts, which isn't the case at all. 

[Rune 1,099]

People are going to have opinions. They're going to think your snobby if you have one or can't write if you don't. There is no winning. 

 

Base it off if what YOU want. There isn't a way to please everyone, nor should you try. 

[Samantha 64]

@Rune , I just want people to be happy on our site, lol. 

[Rune 1,099]

Just now, Samantha said:

@Rune , I just want people to be happy on our site, lol. 

Are people joining and staying? Do you have a good base of members that participate and enjoy their time there?

 

If so, congrats! People are happy. If not, then you can look at what you might need to change. If your wondering, I cannot suggest putting it up as a poll and asking your members enough. There have been several things I would have assumed people wanted/did not want and have been proven wrong by allowing them to voice their opinion and discuss the idea. You might be pleasantly surprised to see what they think on the topic. 

[Samantha 64]

EDIT: That was the wrong way to word that, lol. Our current members are happy on our site. I just don't want people to feel like our site is exclusive or something. I guess that's the right way to word that lol

5 minutes ago, Rune said:

Are people joining and staying? Do you have a good base of members that participate and enjoy their time there?

 

 

Yes, they are, I love our member base so much. That was the wrong way to word it. I guess I just don't want potential members to feel like they've been alienated by a word count we don't heavily enforce. 

 

Honestly, the more I write in this topic I feel like this was just a throwaway topic where I was just venting concerns or something lol 

 

@Rune

Edited December 17, 2017 by Samantha

[Rune 1,099]

Nothing wrong with venting! It's a "controversial" topic in that people either want it or don't. In the end, your going to alienate people one way or another, but your also doing that with apps, genre and a myriad of other details. 

 

That said, if you aren't noticing anyone complaining either about others not meeting it or guests whining that you have one I'd say your meeting your niche.

[Samantha 64]

Thank you <3 

 

I feel better now lol 

[Icewolf 258]

How about something along the lines of all in character posts must move the story forward, no text speak, etc?

 

Most of the time it's obvious if someone isn't a good writer because they're repetitive, constantly post one or two word answers, get easy grammar and spelling wrong. Even one-liners aren't necessarily bad because they can be a good reaction sometimes (if the character is shocked, or angry at what's just happened.)

[Dragon 673]

I know this got said probably 12 times in the other thread being reffed, but at the end of the day "you do you". Build a site geared towards what you want and enjoy, and it'll mostly attract others with the same wants. 

 

If you think lack of word count enforcement is problematic, it might not hurt to lower your minimum as long as you truly don't mind. Personally, I think a bit of leeway is reasonable. I've literally had a staff member dive up my ass before because I made a post that was 197 instead of 200 (I added 3 unnecessary the's into the post, intentionally grammatically incorrect in placement, and then they were happy. Stupid af, right?).

It is when staff set a word count, then get salty about the members who prefer to stick towards it that it becomes a problem. IMO, what that says to members is "you're just decent enough to be tolerated, we're better than you". It's elitism at that point, there's not really any way to argue around that. 

 

As much as I dislike them, a reasonable minimum isn't going to stop me from joining a site that I find otherwise appealing. I don't think anyone thinks that a 200 minimum is promoting elitism or even a quality is quantity mentality. Now sites that require crap like 500 minimum? It would take a damn solid argument to convince me of the contrary. 

[VirusZero 176]

The fact that you don't enforce the word count (even when realistically you probably should) basically says all you really need to know. You don't think it's worth the time/effort/pain to enforce this rule. Therefore you should scrap it.

 

As for the argument that people aren't used to replying to one liners for why you should keep word counts... It doesn't hold water. People may well be versed in that because of experiences on other sites. Even on your site they reply to the text/twitter type stuff so it shows they are capable of responding to short replies.

Plus, simply having a rule that says a person has to reach a certain word count doesn't actually make it easier to reply.  I've said it before and I'll repeat it now... A writer can drop 500 words but none of them be useful to the situation at hand. (Things like: internal monologuing, describing irrelevant parts of the scene, overly describing their own character, covering things that have already happened, etc... So sure they have a 500 word post but 450 words is them thinking to themselves reacting to everything going on, which may be interesting but still doesn't give you anything to reply to. Not unless your character is Professor Charles Xavier.) 

 

On the flip side they often punish people who are quick posters but offer less per post. (So instead of one post at maybe 500 words, they do 5 at 100 words. Same amount of content, but they keep things going with potentially less wait.)

 

If you really want some kind of rule here, it might be better to go with a "Give your partner enough to work with" type rule. It's a little vaguer but it eliminates the word count while still giving you room to speak to someone who posts like 10 words that don't help anyone. (Though definitely encourage people to speak up and ask for more before just running to staff.)

[Quell 249]

I'm in the "make rules about posting" camp. Word counts (while they certainly have merit in some situations) can't make a flat character round or a plotless post have substance.

 

If you want an actual specific number of words that's one thing, but if you want quality, no chat speak, enough to reply to, I would say you can say that isn't a word count, necessarily. 

 

Obviously though, if you have a happy site, there's no need to worry. I would just make a note to all admins that ____ is the leeway for word count. (In other words, if it's a 250 wc, you don't poke anyone until it's under 150. It's kind of like asking for your roommate's rent check on the 1st when rent isn't due til the 5th.) It's saying 250+ is an A grade, but anything under 150 is an F. Everything between is meh, but you're not going to be reprimanded.

 

[Uaithne 543]

It would be better to have a word count that you don't enforce than to not have a word count that you do enforce.

 

Yes, by having a word count, you're turning away potentially great writers who may be total assets to your site.  But on the flip side, if your community has gotten used to a certain writing style, dropping the word count might introduce members who will totally obliterate what they know and love.  Your old members would be unhappy, and your new ones would be confused because they're doing nothing wrong because their posts, while short, are still good.

 

Although I don't like word counts, I also don't think that the decision to remove them from a well-established community should be made lightly.  Those members joined knowing that there was a word count.  They expected a certain writing style.  If you're thinking about removing the word count because it's not really a meaningful rule, talk about it thoroughly with your members, and allow people the option to come to you privately in case they're afraid of saying something publicly.  Or have an anonymous poll, or something.  Removing the word count will allow some really good writers access to play with your current member base, but they're going to have different expectations than what your current members will have.

[Morrigan 1,826]

What all of them said ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[Bass 26]

I don't like the idea of having no strict rule on word counts but still laying out guidelines is a no-no. "No strict word count, but..." is one of my favs.

 

The idea that you have a rule in place that you only enforce if you are having issues with the person can be more confusing and harmful to that person than being clear about what is actually expected of them from the get go. If the issue isn't the number of words but the progression of the thread, and it is only enforced when someone is irritating or doesn't progress the thread in the post, then what good is a word count rule? Give what you are given is my motto. But if the site is already established, I think that the priority should be the players you currently have over the ones you hope to attract. Ask them what they want and let their voice in on your decision. Better to miss out on a passing guest than lose people who have have built plots on your site already. Personally, I say drop the rules and regulations requiring fodder and let your creative flag fly.

Edited December 18, 2017 by Bass

[Rune 1,099]

Players shouldn't have a problem going "hey, I can't respond to this." As well.

 

It sucks, but there are times when people write 2000 words with no interaction.