Staffing Why are so many people obsessed with "no stats rp"?

[Rune 1,099]

I hate stats.

 

Simple as that. I absolutely cannot keep track of them no matter how hard I try. Numbers do not compute in my head. I want to like them. There are cool RPs that have them that I would very much like to participate in. But the second numbers enter play my brain turns off.

 

Well, all that and the fact that I'm capable of writing well adjusted characters that aren't gods/unstoppable/perfect and don't need numbers to hold my hand.

[Uaithne 543]

I guess it comes down to how you view roleplaying: as a game (use stats) or as collaborative writing (don't use stats).

 

Because my site involves battles of life and death, we have to use stats to be fair. There are upsides and downsides. Stat systems can be a lot of maintenance, but it can (and does) decrease OoC conflict because determination of the winner is objective. But it can be really frustrating when your rolls suck and your character dies. That's the Hunger Games, I suppose.

 

Personally, I like stat-less games. Stats don't keep people from being bad roleolayers; it just makes them find different ways to be bad. Similarly, things like godmoding and powerplaying don't have to be a part of stat-less games if they're managed appropriately. The key is encouraging members to let their characters have flaws and be imperfect.

[featherstone 69]

Since powerplay has been mentioned, stats may tend to attract the type of player that will minmax and care less about character history and more about any excuse to make their punches more destructive.

 

I'm not saying it's everyone or even the majority of stats lovers, I'm just saying it does not stop or turns off powerplayers. You only get a different breed of those.

 

When I was running a game that had stats, one of the main struggles at character creation was explaining people we were looking for characters with an identity that made sense, not for a list of powers to pnw everything.

[Morrigan 1,826]

I've actually talked with some of my friends that DND and play on PBP roleplays to find out a little more of their take on it and there is a stigma that a stats RP puts your character at the beginning of their "powers" and "struggle" and "life". What if, I'll use my vampire Liz for an example, she's a nearly five hundred year old vampire? She knows her strengths, her weaknesses. She's well aware of what she can and can't do. However, a stats based roleplay starts her out at level 1. Well her history etc doesn't reflect her as a character. So I wouldn't feel comfortable playing her in that environment.

 

I actually once did take the character and ported her to dnd and she kicked ass but all of the other players made the game play unenjoyable.

[clipsed 231]

In a mature community (behaviour wise, not content wise) you don't need them because you can behave reasonably and no one will steamroll everyone else. That isn't  to say having them means your players are immature, though!

 

Personally, I don't like having stats for day to day life because keeping track of my character's strength etc. is barely something I bother to do in video games where it's necessary. How the heck can I be trusted to do it in forum rp? xD That said, I incorporate them for "events" where we need a bit more ~chance such as dueling or quidditch, but even then it's "this is your base score overall and I'mma roll to add to it", not a bunch of weighted stats.

 

To each their own, really!

[Hypester 28]

I started typing and it turns out I have a lot of thoughts on this:

 

I also do tabletop RPGs and online paly by post RPs. I've done one tabletop system as a play by post. I also avoid stats in only play by post games, though I have done with stats before. There are three major problems I have with stats systems,

1) Learning a new system is tedious
2) Most systems are undeveloped, and only provide vague guidelines, which non-stat rps do just as well
3) Stats limit what kind of character you can create, and it makes a very specific type of game.

But that doesn't answer the question, is it needed or a balanced game. This idea of what is and is not a game is, imho, very narrowminded. Tag is a game. Debate is a game. Just because everyone is not playing the same rigidly defined game with win and lose states set by the admin does not make something not a game.

Stat-less RPs work most for me because it emphasizes the situation over the character's abilities. With a stat-less RP, the 'game' is to use what you know of their character to make an impression. In a fight, this is just as true as it is in a meeting, or in a bedroom. The rule against controlling others' characters prevents using it to abuse others' characters and the most important rule of all prevents continuous godmodding: players in such an open ended system are free to roleplay with who they want.

That means in a fight, the player is incentivized to make it interesting for everyone, like a game designer would, as opposed to looking for ways to avoid parts of the game that don't grant them more power to make fights shorter. In short, statless RPs are more easily balanced so everyone has the same amount of fun and control, even if some people are vastly more powerful than others. This begs the question of what stat systems actually balance, since it's not equal control for everyone.

So, not to down stats systems, because I like combat-focused games as much as the next guy, but I prefer to do those with video games. If I'm going to extend the creativity to write, I personally want the freedom to write all sorts of cool stuff, limited by what works for the other players, not in hopes of earning a position. And THAT, more than anything makes the stats RP niche, the fact that players can often go get the same experience they have to earn on one site for free elsewhere. Without the mechanics mastery, the stat-based play by post doesn't have a lot to offer like the combat-focused video game.

But I understand, from reading this, that it gives people a feeling of security or stability. It's just hard for me to connect with because I don't experience any more or less security outside stat systems.

Edited July 5, 2018 by Hypester

[Hysteria 56]

They aren't needed, but some people prefer them. I personally enjoy stats and mechanics because it makes me feel like what I'm doing with my characters is more progressive and less stagnant, but I can also understand why others would dislike keeping track of stats and other mechanics.

[RaWolfe 43]

I dont use stats, my groups are bound to rules and if you follow them then there is no need to balance the characters. If you are new, you start at a low rank (Ensign or Gil) and you work yourself to the next rank. Species in Star Trek universe are well written out, so you cant godmod it. 

[Marin 14]

Stats are but one answer to the problem of unskilled writers throwing overpowered characters around.

 

Another answer is moderation.

 

For me, the question is whether stats are fun--not whether they're effective. I love stat based games, but one time I tried out someone's combat system and they had a mechanic where grappling magic characters caused them to suddenly become incompetent and suffer debilitating penalties to magic.

 

They wanted to tell me it was extremely easy to avoid this, but they missed the point where letting luchadors wrestle magicians into submission like they're a bunch of babies who can't handle a particularly tight hug was really goddamn lame, conceptually speaking. They didn't even have to punch them in the throat or something that at least sounded less embarrassing.

 

And that had me parting ways with that community REAL quick. The stats were basically enabling bad, immersion breaking writing, and that kinda sucked the fun out of it.

[Nixie 13]

I like stats personally 🙂 But if you're wanting to join a site quickly and have a lot of documentation to read through it can turn you off a little.

 

I have stats on my game because I like the definite actions in them, if my character faints then they're out, I'm not in a thread where my opponent is ducking my punches for half a century. The stats are only concrete for events but if players want to adjust them for their own threads they are more than welcome to.

[Gothic 307]

I talked about this with my boyfriend and he cannot understand RPing without stats. Especially when there is combat involved. 

 

If there are stats in the game, it tends to change the way I play and what characters I tend to create. In a collaborative writing rp, I want to write with people and I'm a lot less competitive. In a stats RP? I don't get emotionally attached to my characters. I want to build their stats, see where they go, and I also tend to be more distant with the other rpers on the site. I have been on one site where stats was used, and while it was fun. I don't really want to experience it again. Although I think that style of RP needed it. 

[Mistress Of The Obvious 73]

From my experience stat games are often badly implemented because they are not built by tabletop gamers, let alone tabletop gamers with home brewed game building and dungeon mastering experience. Simply put, they have no idea what they’re doing.

 

One system I played under you got a certain specific number of stats at start (I forget something like twenty) and three stat places. Nice and simple. You created three posts a week and picked a battle with someone else and agreed to have it either in character or out each week. Winner got 3 points. Loser 2. Again nice and simple. Do you see the problem here?

 

When someone joins, likely there will be a whole bunch of people way higher in power that have been around for months if not years. It’s not bad in the beginning because you’ll have other newbies to fight with, but the vast majority will not stay. You will quickly likely be the only one in your power bracket. This means everyone you will fight you will either win or lose. Period. Also those big powerful characters that you fight because you lose will automatically gain that extra stat point so you will lose against them the next time. You will always be weaker than someone who joined before you. Always.

 

Another game I was in was participation based. You posted in the training board and when a competition happened, a dice randomizer was done and points were added to that score. It worked because the site was big, so if you were active, you had a good chance of placing pretty high if not medaling every now and then.

 

That site closed down and two members recreated the old one…but never advertised. So the same people were active every single week. Suddenly, your decent chance was shot. One of the admins constantly created new characters and shelved them getting bored with them a few months later. So characters that medaled had a good shot of not being around.

 

My advice to those who want stat systems, go check out RPGdrivethru and download a whole bunch of free stat systems. Actually, a lot of people should check out that site to check out how different people wrote their lore. Even if you’re doing a modern fantasy site it still helps.

 

The reason why I think a lot of people skimp their stat systems outside of not knowing what they’re doing is because they want things to be “simple” to not scare away people who don’t like stats. They’re hoping that by being barebones they’ll attract people who don’t like stats but like the lore. I’m telling you right now, that’s a bad idea. People who don’t like stats won’t join, and now you have a weak underdeveloped system.

 

As far as whether stats are good or bad. Depends entirely on what you want to do and the overall purpose of the game is. If it’s competition based whether combat, sports, etc. you want some sort of stats and progression. Most sites the point is people (often super powered in some way) getting into situations. Very rarely is this combat with another player character. Thus, stats aren’t really needed. A progression chart is nice so through playing you can up your character’s powers and skills as well as gain new ones, but this is more for you the player.

Edited July 14, 2018 by Mistress Of The Obvious

[Josie 198]

I've played on both kinds of sites. The sites I run always have some sort of stat system. 

 

In my experience, there is no difference between the two aside from personal preference*. It's frequently argued (even by myself, in the past) that a game without stats will require more communication between the players in instances where another game would use a stat system- such as a fight. But even if a stat system is being used, the players are often still just as excited to talk about it with one another. There's just as much suspense and thrill in finding out who got what roll, etc., etc. Some people feel it's easier to write a fight without having to do rolls or what have you, but I'd say it isn't really any easier since a fight without any stat system in place does still require one to consider basically all the things a stat system would consider, such as the size and strength of the people involved, and communicate with one's partner about it. Stat systems don't limit creativity or spontaneity, but in my experience require more improvisation and creativity from the people using them. 

 

Having a stat system also does not guarantee that you aren't going to get people who exploit it or who otherwise play unfairly. In both instances, an admin needs to step in to deal with the situation. Not having a stat system does not automatically mean that players/characters don't have to "work" for their achievements.

 

The only additional difference is perhaps from an admin perspective. A stat system requires a lot of thought and care and planning, and then you sort of get to monitor the progress of it without hopefully having to be hands-on with it every day. But keeping things rolling without a stat system does require more frequent hands-on maintenance and activity from an admin.

 

I personally enjoy playing games with stat systems more than games without them, but that's because I'm motivated by tangible goals. I like getting XP, better gear, all that sort of stuff.

*If the stat system is constructed well. Sometimes they're done poorly and then they do suck.

[Guest BETA BLUE]

There is no right way to roleplay.  I know people like stats and others don't. A hardcore stats rp is a turn off for me. I learned to plot and communicate with other members. For me, stats can take away plotting.  I love to work on the story. Talk to my friends and develop something. Not be dictated by a cold plastic object. 

[valucre 19]

You definitely want to have a mechanism to enforce things like fair play and a balance for things like character abilities but I don't think that stats are the only answer to that and that they come with their own issues compared to freeform

 

My own site is freeform with the controls being narrative based, things like the canon process and the mild powers ruleset, and where we started using dice recently it has always been around narrative controls rather than statistics around character skills or abilities. Like we have a dice based system, totally optional, which gives people Hit Points when fighting one another but emphasizes narrative control. So someone could be reduced to 0 but still be alive, or even only taking minor damage, but still loses the fight or story arc or what have you

 

Some members have more complex systems of their own devising which other members can opt into and we encourage that because it lets people do whatever they feel comfortable doing, but that isn't the sitewide mechanic

Edited July 21, 2018 by valucre