Staffing A great staffer with a bad problem

[xexes 108]

At one of my sites, there is a particular staffer, "Amy", who is just terrific at attracting new members and keeping the cbox active and has been the cause of the site's massive activity and member boost since they joined it. I really feel like much of the site's success right now is due to their presence, and I'm really glad for this person.

 

But. They lie.

 

Their life is not so great so they lie about it, and it's not so easy to detect. It's gotten to the point where most of the staff can't tell truth from fiction. We've told Amy to knock it off but there haven't been any improvements; this makes sense because you can't tell someone to just stop having a mental health issue, right? We also noticed that some of the promising members that we got seem to have faded away and that there aren't as many longtimers as we feel there should be - the ones that we approached said it was because Amy made them feel uncomfortable. We don't know if it was Amy's lying, something else, or just that they were planning to leave anyways and Amy was one of those things but not necessarily the only nor the biggest thing.

 

Advice?

[VirusZero 176]

The issue is that, sure, they bring activity... but is this activity staying? Are they also driving away activity. From the sounds of it? Yes, they are. There will come a time when their negative impact will outweigh any positive they bring. That they drive/scare off more members than they keep. Their reputation may precede them. 

 

You've already talked to them once to get them to stop this behaviour, they haven't listened. At this point it's clear they don't want to improve. So the only option is to tell them to cease immediately then be ready to demote or ban if necessary.

I mean here's the thing... it doesn't matter what the behaviour is (whether they have a mental issue or are lying or trolling or what) if they're disturbing the site then that behaviour has to stop. One condition of them being on site is that they behave. So now if this means a person with a mental issue needs to get professional help to stay... so be it. The choice is their's though. If they don't want to get that help that's fine, but they have to understand that their issue is no excuse for poor behaviour and that it won't be tolerated.

 

 

[Uaithne 543]

I have to agree with @VirusZero.

 

Sometimes people think that they need to excuse the behavior of folks with mental issues.  "They can't help it," is a common phrase.  But that doesn't mean that the behavior doesn't need to be addressed and corrected.  If someone had a mental issue to be extremely aggressive, you wouldn't just let him punch you in the face and then say, "Oh, it's okay - he can't help it."  You'd be pissed!  You'd want to stop the behavior, even if it means separating yourself from that person.  That's kind of what it's like being with someone who is a chronic liar.  It's manipulating and can sometimes be abusive depending upon how far they take it.  You don't want yourself or your members in an abusive situation.

 

Without knowing the type of lies that Amy tells, it's difficult to pinpoint exactly what I'd do.  But most likely I'd probably sit Amy down and say, "Listen, you're telling these lies and they need to stop.  If you don't want to talk about your true life, that's fine - just don't talk on the subject at all.  People want to be around someone they can trust, and people are having trouble telling your truth from your fiction.  You are in a position of power and you need to be someone that the members can look up to.  If you continue this behavior, you will be [insert punishment here]."

 

And if she continues with the behavior, follow through.

 

Sometimes people can be too vague when talking to other members about issues, which is why I suggested being a little tougher about it.  From personal experience, sometimes people say wishy-washy things that you don't really realize are ultimatums until they're really really angry at you, and you're not sure why exactly.

 

Separate from Amy, I'd explore what these other members are doing on the site and what you can do to keep them.  They might be leaving solely because of Amy, but more likely it's because it's a "last straw" sort of thing.  Not that you did anything bad, per se, but perhaps they just got bored of the site.  There might not be enough interesting things to do, maybe the genre is a little tedious, etc.  In the near future, allow members to fill out and PM questionnaires to you to see if you can get some feedback on the non-Amy things that are going on in the site.  In the meantime, see what members are lagging, offer to RP with them, etc.

Edited March 30, 2017 by Uaithne

[Sage 289]

@VirusZero & @Uaithne are totally right. Amy is in a position of power and it's being abused. But you're also in a position of power. Use it to protect your members and yourself. 

 

Amy realizes what she's doing. You said you've approached her about it before, but she apparently doesn't care. She doesn't care enough about you or your site to change her behavior. You've tried to be her friend about it, but that hasn't worked. She needs help that you can't provide. It's time to give her an ultimatum so that she knows you know that she's manipulating and abusing you. 

 

 

[Josie 198]

This is a tough spot to be in!

 

I have to say I disagree with the idea that Amy doesn't care or that she might even realize what she's doing, simply because this behavior has continued after you've said that it needs to stop. You're exactly right, @xexes, (all 'you's past this point are general) that you can't just tell a person to stop having any kind of illness. If you tell a long-time alcoholic not to drink, they're still going to wind up doing it anyway even if they don't want to. It's something they've become addicted to, and the same can be said of lying (or just about anything else). Asking a person to make a change in their lifestyle typically also requires them to turn to some professional outside source and ask for help, which is difficult for most people to do regardless of their mental health- but is often even more difficult for people with poor mental health. It's not surprising to me that Amy's behavior hasn't changed because what asking her to stop lying is is actually asking her to go seek professional help; it's like demanding that someone just learn German. They can't spontaneously learn the language on their own within a span of 24 hours because you told them to, and even if they did immediately enroll into a course in German they aren't going to be fluent in it the next day. These things take time. Change is an ongoing process. I am bringing this up because it would factor in to how I personally handle the situation.

 

That being said, I agree that Amy should be demoted or removed. I feel it's worth noting that if Amy is lying, there is a reason behind it. I can't say what it is as I don't know what the lies are and I don't know her, but they could be her seeking attention and socialization that she's otherwise not getting enough of, and I feel that just dumping her cold would be wrong (re: banning her). ('You's past this point are not general, and are directed at OP.) Still, your site is not the place for her to get the attention she needs and no one there is likely to be qualified to give her the help she needs. By joining the site, she's agreed to a certain code of conduct. By being on staff, there's an (perhaps unwritten) agreement that she needs to be an example to the community. No matter what her mental state is, if she cannot meet these standards then she should not be there.

 

But I do think the situation can be handled with a gentle hand, though it's possible it won't go well either way. I think what she needs to hear is the truth: you understand that she has a problem, but there are expectations which everyone is expected to meet that a mental problem does not excuse. She is not meeting those expectations, even after having a talk about it. She needs professional help, and your forum is not the place to get it.

 

If you decide to give her a second chance as a regular member, I would very clearly outline what behaviors she's doing that need to stop (with examples). But this is not something as simple as using the wrong code for an application or begging for plots in the cbox- there's no one-time fix for it. It can be expected that she might not make a change immediately and might not even recognize when she is doing a behavior that you don't want, and so you could be left having to continue to point out to her when she's doing something you don't like. I would include a trial period for her, where if she does not improve by x amount within x time frame, she gets asked to leave. I see letting her stay as being hand-holdy (and will require a lot of extra energy and work from you until/if she improves), and while I think that Amy might need a hand to hold it's also definitely not your job to do that.

 

So, I would ask her to leave and explain to her why I made that decision (the content of the third paragraph). Personally, I would include that I care about her and her well being, and that I can't give her the help she needs. I would include that if she's having trouble seeking help, she might try getting her feet wet with 7Cups. There, she can simply find someone to listen to her and talk with, or even get help online from a professional therapist at reduced costs after a free trial period.

[SusieQ 0]

I have to say I am agreeing with @Gothams Reckoning on this matter. Claims that this staffer isn't caring or is doing this on purpose is the wrong attitude to take. 

 

They bring traffic to your site, they keep your c-box active. These are signs that this person does care, and does care deeply. This requires not only time but invested effort, so any idea that they would then spend the rest of their time purposefully driving people away from your site is not consistent with that behavior. Therefore, it is mostly likely that they are unaware they are doing it. As Gotham said, changes in any behavior issue related to a mental health problem will not happen overnight, and they might not happen quickly at all. 

 

What was it specifically that this staffer did to make people feel uncomfortable? Have you established exactly what it is they have been doing or saying to new members? If this member is specifically bringing people in, what is changing between them being friendly and inviting to driving them away? It might be that you find some specific behavior patterns that can be addressed directly, because to me it is sounding like getting rid of them entirely from your forum isn't something you want to do. You might find that reaching out and being someone that "Amy" can talk to about their not so great real life can help. Someone they can be honest with can lead to more honesty in other situations. 

 

But that is a lot of work, and lets be honest, we all have our own issues and truthfully sometimes you don't want to take on the burden of helping someone with their issues, and that is fine too. In that case it is important not to take any of the behavior personally, which can be very, very hard to do, and I would recommend taking a tactful and understanding approach - perhaps telling them to leave the forum entirely is too much, perhaps tell them firmly, but kindly, that you no longer want them as a staffer and see if the pressure of no longer being an active staffer for you gives them time to address the behaviour issues. 

 

If, after a while, you still feel that they are causing the same issues then perhaps then would be the time to ask them to leave - just try to put yourself in their shoes and do it sensitively but firmly without hurting their feelings. 

[xexes 108]

I wanted to provide an update.

 

In the past few days, Amy has barely been on the cbox. I checked in and they said they were fine, I didn't mention anything else because the timing wasn't right.

 

Amy has been keeping up with her threads, but because Amy hasn't been in the cbox, it's been pretty dead. When she is there, you can barely keep up with the cbox and all the site activity, without her, there are a few lines a day. Our new members popping in have slowed and those who do visit don't seem to be sticking and the dead cbox is one of those reasons why.

 

 

[Uaithne 543]

Okay, I think there is something else going on here, and it would be a good idea for you to explore it.

 

The site is a lot more active when Amy is around.  Why is that?  Can you figure out what she's doing right and harness that?  You might even be able to encourage her positive behavior if you can pinpoint whatever she is doing.  Similarly, can you identify the negative behavior so that you can address it and/or redirect it when it happens?

 

It doesn't make sense that the site is alive and thriving when Amy's active, but then you have a significant amount of the population leaving because of her.

 

Is there a way Amy could have puppet accounts - that she "plays" more than one member on the site?  So when she is gone, they're all gone because they don't really exist - and it's all part of her complicated lie?

 

Or, perhaps the fact that she's energetic and active draws people in.  Could the rest of your staff try to engage people in the cbox in a similar manner to what Amy does?  It sounds like members really like that.  To start out, you could grab another staff member and chat casually in the cbox, leaving the discussion open enough for other people to jump in at any time.  From the way you describe it, it sounds like you've left Amy to do a lot of the socialization that draws people in, and when she's gone, your board suffers because its become so dependent upon her.  But you could still change that.

 

Or, you could ask her what she's doing that's awesome.  Getting her to help you out might redirect her attention from lying to actually doing.

[Icewolf 258]

There was a problem that I had with an rper who pretended to be two different writers and controlled two important characters which they used to bully and god-mod people. (As it was on twitter, there was no way that I could determine if the same ip address was being used.) It caused a lot of damage to the community and so, if Amy is using puppet accounts it could explain what's happening. There's not a problem with people having multiple accounts though - they just need to be honest about it and not use them to bully and god-mod people. It would be a good idea to make sure that's not happening.

[xexes 108]

Is there a way Amy could have puppet accounts - that she "plays" more than one member on the site?

 

The lies are to the point to where we can't discern who is real or not in Amy's life, but we are sure sock-puppeting isn't happening. It's a major concern for a staffer account, too.

 

 From the way you describe it, it sounds like you've left Amy to do a lot of the socialization that draws people in, and when she's gone, your board suffers because its become so dependent upon her.  But you could still change that.

 

Yeah, this is what is happening. Two of the admins are slow, the head admin is working two jobs, and the other admin isn't on at peak times, leaving Amy to be the star of the show. She really is terrific at it! Reading this, I feel like maybe we have taken Amy for granted since the change was so dramatic.

 

This is a great point and I brought it up with our head admin. We will think on it and come back with some suggestions ; maybe we can promote someone to help with the cbox more.