Staffing What should be a "given" but isn't treated as such?

[Rune 1,099]

Weird title but allow me to explain...

There are some things that should go without saying. But they get rehashed over and over again because people either think they are still important or that they are, somehow, a selling point when they should be something present regardless...

 

For example: Any site advertising themselves as LGBT friendly. Shouldn't that go without saying? (OOC, of course. IC is another matter.)

 

Along these lines, any mention of not having cliques. You can't guarantee that and that shouldn't be the selling point of your board, that should just be how it is.

[Uaithne 543]

Stating that a site is friendly. People will discover that on their own, and one person's "friendly" may be another person's "overbearing" or "cliquish."

 

"Have fun" because I don't know why people need to be told that as a rule. (Though as a parting line, I think it's fine.)

 

"No bullying" because nobody who behaves in a bullying manner will actually pay attention to it. Same with cheating. And theft.

 

In most games on this part of the internet, rules about metagaming, powerplaying, and godmoding are not necessary. If someone behaves this way, the rule they have broken is to not break the setting.

 

And on that note, rules prohibiting people from breaking the setting or making ridiculous characters are, on most sites, not necessary to state. The exception is if you run a site where such behaviors are common or accepted on other sites in the same genre.

 

I've heard the LGBT one is to make people aware that the staff is well-versed in lgtb issues, rather than just being an "average" site where lgtb members and characters are allowed. I don't know . . . I've never felt the need to include it in the rules.

[Morrigan 1,826]

OOC =/= IC - I mean duh... I know some people can't tell the difference but the rule doesn't change that at all.

[Rune 1,099]

51 minutes ago, Morrigan said:

OOC =/= IC - I mean duh... I know some people can't tell the difference but the rule doesn't change that at all.

We have something along the lines of "we are not our characters" but that's mostly to keep people from trying to roll themselves or use themselves as a face... Which should also go without saying that you dont do.

[Huskerdust 625]

It's not a job! It should be a given. It SHOULD but it isn't. People have real lives outside of RP and sometimes, just as with anything we do for fun, we don't feel like doing it. I don't even think people who play professional sports are constantly playing football all day, every day but for some reason, people expect RPers to be online 24/7, constantly writing, every single day, every moment. I've seen people get angry about their fellow RPers being online but not replying to them. It's like... so? Maybe they just want to chill on discussion sites or social media or watch some Youtube. Maybe they don't feel like writing. It's doubly worse if you're staff. You're supposed to be around at everybody's beck and call to fix minor cosmetic problems with a site. If it's not hurting anything, do all the board images HAVE to be there RIGHT NOW? I don't think so. Let's just let people chill and come to RP when they feel like it instead of being all antsy all the time. 

[Shades 676]

There is a site for everyone AND, if the site you want doesn't exist, you can just create it.

 

I know it sounds kind of silly to say, but with the amount of people who either join sites and then want to change everything, or show  up as guest and start whining about how the site is, you'd think that site they're visiting is the one and only site available for them to join.

 

Also seconding @Zozma - It's a hobby. People have jobs, real lives, families, school, taking naps, and all of these comes before roleplaying.

[Guest BETA BLUE]

Jerks are the reason rules exist. Sadly, enough if something isn't there the jerk will try to take advantage.  

 

[Kit the Human 759]

6 hours ago, Uaithne said:

I've heard the LGBT one is to make people aware that the staff is well-versed in lgtb issues, rather than just being an "average" site where lgtb members and characters are allowed. I don't know . . . I've never felt the need to include it in the rules.

 

I used to support this because it helped some people but it's now meaningless to me. I find looking at cast of characters more helpful for me (are we talking more than just gay men? Or is it a forum that actually remembers the L and T?) 

 

Note that homophobia and transphobia is still common. So it doesn't actually go without saying that a forum is LGBT friendly, buuuut the disclaimer is still almost useless to me.

 

[Rune 1,099]

1 hour ago, Kit the Human said:

 

I used to support this because it helped some people but it's now meaningless to me. I find looking at cast of characters more helpful for me (are we talking more than just gay men? Or is it a forum that actually remembers the L and T?) 

 

Note that homophobia and transphobia is still common. So it doesn't actually go without saying that a forum is LGBT friendly, buuuut the disclaimer is still almost useless to me.

 

 

I say it goes without saying because, while those things exist, running across them on an RP forum is slim to shit. (Not saying it doesn't happen, just saying it's few and far between.) And it should go without saying that your board is that... As opposed to the other way around. 

 

You don't see boards advertising that they support equality of the races. Just the gays.

[Kit the Human 759]

27 minutes ago, Rune said:

 

I say it goes without saying because, while those things exist, running across them on an RP forum is slim to shit. (Not saying it doesn't happen, just saying it's few and far between.) And it should go without saying that your board is that... As opposed to the other way around. 

 

You don't see boards advertising that they support equality of the races. Just the gays.

 

Different experiences! But that's ok. (Though it SHOULD go without saying, I'd certainly prefer it.)

 

I agree, we don't see people saying POC friendly, there are other ways to tell these things. Actions speak louder than words and all that jazz. 

[Uaithne 543]

23 minutes ago, Kit the Human said:

 

Different experiences! But that's ok. (Though it SHOULD go without saying, I'd certainly prefer it.)

 

I agree, we don't see people saying POC friendly, there are other ways to tell these things. Actions speak louder than words and all that jazz. 

 

Last week (I think) I saw a site that was advertising itself as POC friendly.  I couldn't tell you what sort of site it was because I didn't pay it much attention.  Sometimes when I see things like that, I walk away thinking that they're just trying to brag how cool and inclusive they are.  Obviously I don't have a problem with POCs (aside from the name itself), but it's just weird that people advertise it.  To me, it seems the same as people saying that they have no cliques on the board as they brag about their inclusiveness.  Might not be how they mean it, but that's how it comes across.

Edited December 27, 2017 by Uaithne

[Sadrienne 242]

12 hours ago, Uaithne said:

"No bullying" because nobody who behaves in a bullying manner will actually pay attention to it. Same with cheating. And theft.

 

In most games on this part of the internet, rules about metagaming, powerplaying, and godmoding are not necessary. If someone behaves this way, the rule they have broken is to not break the setting.

 

And on that note, rules prohibiting people from breaking the setting or making ridiculous characters are, on most sites, not necessary to state. The exception is if you run a site where such behaviors are common or accepted on other sites in the same genre.

 

I would love to live in a world where those rules aren't needed. Unfortunately, those rules are usually in place for the same reason that hairdryers have "do not lick the appliance" warning stickers.

 

There will be someone. Somewhere. Who goes and does it, and then gets stroppy because "you never said I couldn't". I'm pretty relaxed as far as rules go, and tbh I don't care if they even get read. What matters to me is when that twerp does stumble across my board, and let's face it -- they'll ignore any rules and do what they want anyway -- I'll be able to point to that nice shiny sign that says "Don't do the thing".

 

I don't care if they've been read or not, but I do expect every member to behave accordingly. Most people do.

 

 

[StormWolfe 557]

What should be a given? Character conflict in the story does not reflect the writers' real life relationship and is not airing behind the the scenes grievances on the board.

 

Well, I have learned from very harsh experience that this often is not the case. Players will have a falling out and suddenly disrupt everything by using their characters to lash out at one another.

 

This has led us to actually making a rule that states that Admin needs a heads up if there's going to be major character conflict. We do welcome the conflict and we don't ask for details. We just need to know it is planned and that the other player involved knows they are involved.

 

I consider this one of our Daycare of the Damned rules (yes, I have used this phrase before). It's one of those rules we shouldn't have to have yet bitter experience has shown us that it is not a given that player issues with one another will be kept private and off the public forum.

 

Personally, I loathe having to have rules other than an explanation of our RPG rating and our tagging and posting  policies. We have tried not having admin beyond what was needed to maintain the site and keep things flowing. We have also tried not having rules at all. Chaos ensued!

 

So - that was my 2 cents worth!

[CovertSphinx 710]

Back in the Old Days, I remember having to add "The List" (no godmodding, powerplaying, metagaming, flaming, harassing, etc etc) into the rule specifically because of aforementioned Jerkwads that came in and be all like "Oh well you never said I couldn't xyz" or "It's not in the rulez herdurp!" when staff tried to reprimand them for generally poo-poo-jerk behavior. The idea was so that when they inevitably went onto other sites they were apart of (back then everyone was on like 6 sites at a time) to complain that we made up rules to attack them on and how we harassed them and are mean people so nobody should join the site, we could point to the ruleset and be like "Nah fam, it says it right there that what he/she was doing is wrong all we did was enforce the rules". 

 

It really shouldn't need to be there, but at the time it became needed. Nowadays I'm old and bitter though, so I removed The List and decided that if somebody wants to be a jerk, we shouldn't NEED a rule stating basic common-courtesy behavior in order to be able to enforce it. The Board Networking doesn't seem as tightnit and social as it used to be, so I don't think a jerk badmouthing "made up rules" is going to do as much damage as it once did. 

[Uaithne 543]

6 hours ago, Mousie said:

 

I would love to live in a world where those rules aren't needed. Unfortunately, those rules are usually in place for the same reason that hairdryers have "do not lick the appliance" warning stickers.

 

There will be someone. Somewhere. Who goes and does it, and then gets stroppy because "you never said I couldn't". I'm pretty relaxed as far as rules go, and tbh I don't care if they even get read. What matters to me is when that twerp does stumble across my board, and let's face it -- they'll ignore any rules and do what they want anyway -- I'll be able to point to that nice shiny sign that says "Don't do the thing".

 

I don't care if they've been read or not, but I do expect every member to behave accordingly. Most people do.

 

 

 

Quite frankly, if someone starts bullying and then says, "You never said I couldn't!" . . . I really don't want him on the site to begin with. I'm old. I've seen shit. I just want to have fun, and I don't have tolerance for that bull crap anymore.

 

I totally get what you're saying, though. There are some communities that need certain "given" rules outright stated depending upon many factors, and sometimes it's easier to include just to keep the peace. But the ultimate reality is that we aren't selling products and we aren't liable for our goods in the same way hair dryer manufacturers are. Roleplaying is more akin to a club or a sports team in this regard than to a company.

 

As a general word of advice to administrators: you don't need to have rules to punish people about their behavior or to correct them on their content. You can never and will never be prepared enough for all situations to have it all covered in the rules, and you need to know when to put your foot down and when to let things go. I remember I was on a site where a member made an outright foul character that didn't technically break the rules but made me extremely uncomfortable. When I went to the admin, she said, "Yeah, I don't like it either but we can't ask him to change because it's not against our rules."

 

Bull.

 

You can ask people to change if something makes you uncomfortable. There are two fallback rules that should be a given on any site:

 

1. Nothing can break the setting (in terms of realism).

 

2. Nothing can destroy the community atmosphere and the level of comfort you're trying to foster.

 

Let people push it. Let them explore and learn and have fun. But don't let them destroy what you've built because "it's not in the rules."