Staffing App Reviews (Admins and Members)

[Samantha 64]

Hey guys! So I just wanted some opinions on app reviews. I know a lot of sites won't have the same kind of app reviews because our site has a lot of powers and species that other sites don't have but I think this applies to all sites who do app reviews. 

 

As an admin: do you do public reviews (post the review in the thread of their application) or private ones (through PMs, either on site or on discord? And why do you do them that way?

 

Also: does one staff member review the apps, do you split them up, or does more than one staff member look over the same app?

 

As a member: do you (or would you) prefer app reviews to be done publicly (posted under your app) or privately (the admin PMs you about edits that need to be done or issues with lore, etc)?

 

 

 

Edited March 8, 2018 by Samantha
fixing color

[Elena 546]

We PM the comments. It's between us and the member. And the PM the member receives is posted also in the staff forum, so that if the other administrators sees a thing more, to say it. Normally both administrators have to look at the bio, because what one doesn't see, the other might. And if it is a requested character, the requester has to approve it too.

[Morrigan 1,826]

Don't air my dirty laundry. As most people know I'm anti-app but if I do have to put the time into an app I don't need anyone else knowing my business. On one site that I was on when there was a minor tweak "Hey this just needs be be changed real quick because of lore XYZ" I never minded those being in the cBox whatever. But these people also deleted the information after it was resolved and then approved the app.

 

So really, overall, send me a PM unless it's uber minor AND you ask me.

[katherineespair 36]

Guess who just discovered color? PURPLE FOR EVERYONE!!!

 

 

'As an admin: do you do public reviews (post the review in the thread of their application) or private ones (through PMs, either on site or on discord? And why do you do them that way?'

 

Most of us online are awkward people who have enough trouble talking to other human faces offline. I'm that kid that sat in the back of the class, never talked, and hated that horrific moment where I was called on or had to present something in front of the class. To me, no matter how small the detail, putting something that you criticize about someone else in front of the world is just cruel. Sure, some people don't care. But, at the end of the day I want to make sure my members feel comfortable. If something is wrong then the ap is returned to work in progress and a pm is sent to the person in question.

 

'Also: does one staff member review the apps, do you split them up, or does more than one staff member look over the same app?'

 

If I could I would look at all of the aps, but a long time ago I realized I am but one woman and shiny things attract me. My head mod handles all applications. She's good at reading things carefully and takes care of keeping our Master List of members up to date.  Having one person in charge tends to keep things from getting mixed up. I did a few of her duties today and we spent half an hour feeling like we'd forgotten something. Crazy day.

 

ON THE SAME NOTE: I used to have dual-admin approval. All it did was create more work and sometimes make the ap take longer to get approved.

 

As a member: do you (or would you) prefer app reviews to be done publicly (posted under your app) or privately (the admin PMs you about edits that need to be done or issues with lore, etc)?

 

As I said above, I feel strongly about putting anyone in front of the class. It's hard enough to let anyone look over your test scores or your essay or your piece of art.  Why add to that stress by letting other strangers know someone else's criticisms? 

Edited March 9, 2018 by katherineespair

[Icewolf 258]

I would say that sending them a pm about the problem is the best way. When I see staff make comments under an app other than 'pending' 'extension' (if there's a time limit), or 'approved' it seems to me like they are putting the person down even though that might not be the staff's intention. It just looks that way to outsiders and makes the site seem unfriendly. If there is no comment other than the ones I've mentioned, it just seems like the app is still being worked on by the member making it and appears more neutral on the the site. It's all a matter of appearances, both to other members, guests and the member in question because negative comments are embarrassing to them. I once saw a site owner discuss publicly whether they should ban/suspend a member of their board with a staff member and it was quite cringe worthy that they would do that where everyone would see. In addition, it probably sends a signal to ordinary members of the site that they shouldn't interact with this person because they got something wrong on their app. I don't think that c-box comments telling people to 'fix' something is nice, either, especially when the member had seen the issue and was going to fix it anyway. It makes the staff or site owner who posted the message look like a micro-manager at best or passive-aggressive/stalkerish at worst (the latter if they post in the c-box right after you've posted the app.)

[MissQ 90]

As an admin: do you do public reviews (post the review in the thread of their application) or private ones (through PMs, either on site or on discord? And why do you do them that way?

 

Any critical edits are done via PM. No one else needs to know what is said between staff and the potential member. Likely, the members already know the edits we're going to ask for by reading the app themselves and knowing what we like to see in apps. If it's something uber minor like the age contradicts the mini profile, then I'll be like "hey app looks great and I'll get the approved. Mind make this small edit and we'll get you on your way". On the flip side, if I am really enjoying the character application I'm reading, I'll drop a few comments in the discord channel ("oh, they like this thing? So does mine!", "That part in the history had me cracking up. I love it!"). I do this, not only to show how enthusiastic I am about the character but to also draw attention to it so that others will be just as excited as I am to plot with this new character ("You know, X member has this character and shares similar x,y,z. I bet they'd make fantastic friends").
 
Also: does one staff member review the apps, do you split them up, or does more than one staff member look over the same app?

 

We have duel-approval. One pends for review, the other accepts. Sometimes we're not on at the same time or the other is busier. We text each other notes and discuss the plots we want to bring to the table. This is also for our benefit. Both of us read in order to catch anything the other might have missed. That's usually not the case, but we like to keep on top of things and remain on the same page. There are times when one does the pend and the approval because we've spoken to the member about this character and everything looks golden. 

 

 
As a member: do you (or would you) prefer app reviews to be done publicly (posted under your app) or privately (the admin PMs you about edits that need to be done or issues with lore, etc)?

 

I would like it private, especially if there are major edits that I somehow mistakenly made. If it's minor stuff, I usually don't care either way. Just don't make condescending comments that do nothing but humiliate. 

[Yume 99]

As an admin: do you do public reviews (post the review in the thread of their application) or private ones (through PMs, either on site or on discord? And why do you do them that way?

Last time I ran a board I actually had to do edits on with any regularity did public reviews. This was several years ago, and back them PMed reviews just weren't very common. I saw it as a normal thing to do and that's how I did it. It wasn't any sort of shaming or calling out - though it did have the benefit of making sure my (slightly disorganzied and mis-managed) team didn't double up on any one member. I'm gearing up to re-open Grimm Tidings, and I'll do any app reviews in PM. Partially because I intend for profile Applications and partly because I've learned that most people don't *like* public reviews.

 

Also: does one staff member review the apps, do you split them up, or does more than one staff member look over the same app?

Last time I had a co-admin one of us would get on, read the app, post int he staff thread about apps. Then the other would get on, read the app, and post in the staff thread about it, we'd talk it over (to create a unified front) and then one or the other of us would post the review. These days if I get a secondary staff member the only reason I'd wait for them to look at it (or want them to wait for ME to look at it) is if there is something very questionable or rule-bendy. I'm sure we've all gotten that app that awkwardly toes the line between acceptable and 'nope, not happening'. If it's not a definite 'no' but also not an 'I'm okay with this' I may wait to talk it over with someone else to get an idea of another view point. Especially since I am occasionally guilty of letting things pass that I later regret.

 

As a member: do you (or would you) prefer app reviews to be done publicly (posted under your app) or privately (the admin PMs you about edits that need to be done or issues with lore, etc)?

So. As I mentioned before when I started rp private reviews weren't common. I take it as a matter of course that I'm going to get a review posted under my app. The first time I was pmed a review instead the staff member in question was incredibly rude and made me really, really uncomfortable, and I just walked away from the board. Since then I've had plenty of okay experiences, but PMs and I aren't great friends. At any rate, when I join a site as a member I generally don't expect staff to cater to me - so however they do an app review is fine with me as long as they're not super rude about it.  Absolutely nothing will make me leave faster.

[Kit the Human 759]

As an admin: do you do public reviews (post the review in the thread of their application) or private ones (through PMs, either on site or on discord? And why do you do them that way?

 

Private! Not that I really have a choice in the matter because applications are their own page, not a thread. In the past, I did it privately with a just a pended note if need be so that onlookers don't think it takes me yonks to look at apps (it's obvious when an app is waiting for approval.) I appreciate that most people prefer it to be private so I can follow suit.

 

Also: does one staff member review the apps, do you split them up, or does more than one staff member look over the same app?

 

If I have staff, I do apps myself. If I need a second opinion, I ask for it. But otherwise, I'm loosey goosey so there's no need to go over someone's application with a fine tooth comb because my ethos is to trust a member until they prove they can't be trusted. I take that attitude to apps as well. (I don't hold to nonsense "but I approved the app so I can't do anything about character X being OP or whatever." If something game breaking or otherwise unsavory pops up, you can still deal with it.)

 

As a member: do you (or would you) prefer app reviews to be done publicly (posted under your app) or privately (the admin PMs you about edits that need to be done or issues with lore, etc)?

 

I....actually don't care that much.

 

[Sadrienne 242]

I always feel like the process of getting edits to an application should be a dialogue, not a demand. 

 

We post to the application a short note to say "Have sent you a few questions via PM! :D", which confirms to the member that we have looked at it (and also shows prospective members that we're on top of our apps) and we just need a little more information before  we can proceed. Sometimes it's as simple as a field not filled, or just wanting clarification on a particular detail that may have confused the admin looking over the app. 

 

When we do need to request more intensive edits, we prefer to open a proper discussion. So in addition to the PM, which will outline the  primary concerns, we reach out to the member via Discord (if they have it), to talk through options and help them develop the character so that it both fits with the site, and is a character they want to play. 

 

We also have a policy of never denying applications. For as long as the player is willing to work with us, we're willing to work with them to get the character into the game. And in many years of adminning, I've not actually come across an application that was so awful that I felt the only recourse was to write it off. 

 

Currently it's myself and my co-admin approving apps. We go on a "whoever saw it" basis, and I trust her judgement. We do consult each other where needed,  but usually it's a very straightforward process. 

 

As a member, I do prefer that I be approached privately for any issues with my writing. I just don't feel like it's something everyone else needs to know, and how an admin handles the request for edits can tell you a lot about who they are and how they run things. 

[eleholly 118]

I'm a firm believer that to have a successful admin team, you should do things together as an actual team. Sometimes our application reviews take longer because of this, but the way we've kept true to our lore has made the site super cohesive and it flows very well. I have four staff members on my site and we review mostly together. This is to help catch any discrepancies that we might see, as well as have different views on how things read. We're all pretty up to speed on the lore, but each of us have a different species that we favor. It helps to get more than one look on an app to ensure that we're not breaking our own lore by accident.

 

Application chats should be done privately out of respect for your prospective member. I don't know about you, but I would find it very embarrassing to have someone critique my work and creative process out in the open, even if it's over something quite minor. 

[StormWolfe 557]

As an admin: do you do public reviews (post the review in the thread of their application) or private ones (through PMs, either on-site or on discord? And why do you do them that way?

We used to make minor change requests publicly. After moving to Nova, we started doing reviews privately via PMs. Even though we've moved the western to forums, we still do them privately via a Discord DM or PM.

Also: does one staff member review the apps, do you split them up, or does more than one staff member look over the same app?

Well, we only recently added a second person to help admin my RPG. We'll both look at the bios for game continuity and to see that everything meshes where it needs to mesh. If the new character has connections to other played characters, we'll have that player look it over to make sure all of the info is kosher with them.

As a member: do you (or would you) prefer app reviews to be done publicly (posted under your app) or privately (the admin PMs you about edits that need to be done or issues with lore, etc.)?

This depends on how diplomatic the admins are! ;)  I never mind adjusting my bios to suit and actually expect to be asked for changes. Sometimes, no matter how hard you try, you miss stuff. If it seems that the admins get off on shredding bios/apps, then I wouldn't join or stay (if I didn't know of this predilection beforehand).

For major changes, I prefer to get good written notices via PM or on the bio so that I can reference it easily as I work on the changes.

Edited March 10, 2018 by Stormwolfe

[Uaithne 543]

The thing that drives me absolutely bonkers is when anything - and I mean anything - is left behind directly in the topic when the app is approved. Any comments, any "pending, go check your email" stamps, any "finished!" remarks. The only things in that thread should be the app itself and the accepted stamp.

 

Two reasons:

 

1) It's messy looking and doesn't make the profiles look clean and professional.

 

2) It shows you which members needed to work on their apps further. Which ones weren't perfect on the first try. I don't want a history of my mistakes stamped there for all eternity even if it doesn't say exactly what the mistake was.

 

Personally, my site is set up so there is no approval process. I like it. But when I did approve apps on previous sites, I'd send PM for larger requests and post directly in the thread for smaller things like code breakage or missing information.

 

I don't care either way as a member as long as people are respectful and the comments or stamps are deleted when the app is approved. I do _not_ join sites that have more than one person approve the app. To me it seems either too competitive for me (or they just take themselves too seriously), or they can't be trusted to approve apps on their own.

[Dusty 55]

As an admin: do you do public reviews (post the review in the thread of their application) or private ones (through PMs, either on-site or on discord? And why do you do them that way?

 

A. Privately. PM's are sent if anything needs editing before approval can happen. A DM may be used, especially if the applicant is asking about their app on a general chat channel or in the Cbox. We try to avoid putting these things in open areas since most dislike their 'fixes' being aired for all to view. Of course, there is always one that will keep talking about it in the CBox/ Gen Chat regardless (even replying to your PM in this way). 

 

Also: does one staff member review the apps, do you split them up, or does more than one staff member look at the same app?

 

A. Several admins will contribute to the review.  Regardless of how careful an app may be reviewed, each reviewer's feedback will be subjective to a degree. In this way, it's really helpful to have more than one set of eyes to look over the application. It also minimises anything being missed.

 

As a member: do you (or would you) prefer app reviews to be done publicly (posted under your app) or privately (the admin PMs you about edits that need to be done or issues with lore, etc.)?

 

A. Privately.   Text alone is a difficult medium at best, and we cannot guarantee how the receiver will read it.  Some people read everything with a positive slant and others negative. Even the best of intended messages can be misconstrued if read through a negative filter. (or written with one). 

[StormWolfe 557]

2 hours ago, Uaithne said:

I do _not_ join sites that have more than one person approve the app. To me it seems either too competitive for me (or they just take themselves too seriously), or they can't be trusted to approve apps on their own.

 

I understand this although I will affably defend my site for having more than one person look over bios. In my case, I'm very old and about half-blind. The second set of eyes is just that - to look for things I might have missed. I'd really hate to get a new player started writing only to realize I'd missed something vital in their bio that has a major negative impact. It's just a precaution to protect us and the new guy or gal. ;)

 

However, I can see how it might be off-putting if someone has to wait for six or seven people to put on their stamp of approval or get PM'd by multiple people to fix different things. 

 

[Rune 1,099]

Here's the thing.

Literally everyone on the site has had some aspect of at least one of their characters critiqued or reviewed or whatever you want to call it.

And the vast majority of "critiques" are us going "Hey, XYZ thing doesn't happen in our lore" or "You wrote a 500 year old vampire and stopped their history at 50... Wanna give us some more?" (Ha ha! Rhymes!)

Just because you haven't seen the already established members' reviewed apps doesn't mean they haven't had it done. In most cases, it's just us explaining the 'verse a bit better and making sure your character's backstory fits in with what we have. 

 

Could we do it privately? Probably, but chances of someone else making the same mistakes is pretty high, and we've had newbies bond over making the same mistakes in their apps. Having your "dirty laundry" aired is a good chance for other people to learn from your mistakes.

 

One method I do like, and will start implementing, is that when an app is approved, reviews are deleted. 

 

As for whom handles it... 

 

All admin can handle apps, but we have two that do it "full time" as it were. If an app is particularly problematic/confusing/they aren't sure how to word things, then we'll team up and chat about it. If it's particularly weird or just straight up bizarre, I tend to take it on personally because I have a sick fetish.

Sometimes it's just asking how to phrase something so we don't sound like a total asshole. Other times it's us clarifying that it's something we do/do not allow, but most of the time this is limited to first characters and once someone is established, most of our reviews are just reminding them of details/asking them to clarify stuff because they're more comfortable with chatting and asking questions.

 

Do I like having my shit reviewed? No. But that's because I like being right and I like knowing. If you can't handle someone going "Hey, this is wrong. Mind fixing it?" You are probably going to have trouble on the internet... If they aren't phrasing it that nicely, then maybe you shouldn't be on the site.

 

TL;DR Everyone makes mistakes. Reviews are nothing to be ashamed of. They are a learning experience for all involved.