Staffing Paying for yo hobby

[Kit the Human 759]

This is bouncing off of this thread

But of greater breadth. Keeping your financial capabilities in mind, how do you feel about paying money for your hobby? Whether it be paying for hosting, forum software, themes, assets, domain names, or anything else. Do you have a limit on how much you will spend or what you will spend it on?

 

There is an argument made by many (?) people that because something is a hobby, you shouldn't have to spend a lot or any money on it. Do you agree with that statement?

 

Finally, how do you feel about donations? As a member or as a staffer.

[Rivfader 76]

I feel like there's a view that forum rp should be costless because it's something you do online and that can be taken for granted. 

 

If my site were to be long-lasting and continually active for over like a year or more, then I might consider putting a little bit of money into it, maybe to buy a unique skin or pay for jcink premium. 

 

As I said in the thread you linked, I don't agree that hobbies shouldn't have costs because practically every hobby has costs, particularly physical/active ones, i.e, I do a lot of horseriding and that costs a lot to keep up but it's a hobby I love so imo it's worth it. Same with whitewater kayaking. You could pay upwards of €800 for a WW kayak. 

 

Hell, people pay €80 for new video games (me included, occasionally) and don't bat an eyelid. I'd argue roleplay could be worth more to invest some of your money in if you were interested because it's like endless free video games, lol. 

 

EDIT: Forgot to mention donations. I don't think there's anything wrong with the staff of a large site offering the chance for members to donate towards hosting, etc, if they'd like to. Some people would, some people wouldn't. Just personal preference. 

Edited July 24, 2018 by Rivfader

[Morrigan 1,826]

So I've been a Play by post player for over 20 years. That being said I figured out that I liked paying for my hobby because it made me feel good. It made me feel committed to it. Hell. I still own the domain of roleplays I started over ten years ago because I'm just fucking attached.

 

That being said, people that say that games and hobbies should be cheap obviously don't play games or hobbies.

 

Table top RPing, if you're not playing with a good GM, costs at minimum 50 dollars per type of game that you are playing. In fact, I know this because my BF and I just invested in the Call of Cthulu books, the GM guide, the Player guide and a cool little GM addon. And the play guide by itself was fifty bucks. If you have a good GM they will share the book/data. If you don't you either have to buy it yourself or home your google sourced information is accurate (which the latter is normally not).

 

That's not bad. 50 bucks for a game  right? But then question yourself. How long is a tabletop game? A few months? Maximum a year? So you just spent 50-ish dollars for a game that you play maybe once a week for 52 weeks. Now that's not a lot of money right? 1 dollar a week to play a game. This is if the game lasts a year. You think PBP roleplays fizzle out fast, think of the RL drama that fizzles out tabletop game?

 

"You're being a troll."

"Yeah so."

"I don't want to play with you anymore."

"Yeah so."

"GM I'm not going to be here next week."

 

They don't have the leisure that we do to simply choose not to play with someone they don't like. Either they play or they don't.

 

Now that's from the player end. Some GMs, my BF is one of them, like to actually put some effort into the game. He thinks it's different but it's not. We went out just the other week and spent like 10 bucks on colored prints JUST to see if his members would pick up on it. Sometimes it pays off, sometimes it doesn't. I can't remember how many things I've done for my BF to make his games more immersive. I've made tablets for him in photoshop. I have made fliers. I have made fake websites. Jesus, I'm not even invested in the game and I think I spend a good portion of my time and contribution to it.

 

This isn't including miniatures if the game isn't considered "theater of the mind" like Cthulu and Vampire. Or the painting of a miniature. Or anything like that.

 

 

So, all that said. I think you get what you put into the hobby. You can't look at a model airplane and expect it to buy itself. I equally think that if you invest your time/money then you are invested in the project. I Don't think that's one hundred percent but it shows me something about the site if time/money is self invested. In fact I invested time/money into a site I was simply a member on and I saw them sink after two years knowing they had over 250 dollars on donations (more I believe because I personally donated 70+ dollars) Which is is over 2 times the yearly fee by itself. I feel like not only was I gypped (regardless if they paid it month to month that is still less money than what was put into it). I feel like the staff, overall, didn't care for the site if they tanked it like that despite the amount of money that their end users put into it.

 

 

Does that mean I don't think that people should not donate to sites they support? No. But I think you need to see a commitment from the staff before your put your money in. Like here on the Initiative I have always paid for the server and never expected any of you to pay for it at all. I appreciate the support through patronage, advertising and hosting. But in the end... the server is still going to get paid. You are supporting yourself by supporting us. We don't "need" it. But we appreciate it more than you know.

[Arceus 1,082]

So, basically I'm a broke hobo. I ask for donations a lot, because tbh, I can't always afford to renew whatever thing. But whatever I can manage to knock out of the running re: free shit, I'll go for. That which I cannot just sub in a free thing for, I'll pay for (domain names and such). I figure it out, even if I have to rearrange some things and make some ostensibly Bad Decisions, I keep trucking.

 

Now, this will probably sound kind of hypocritical, given I charge for my themes, but I actually learned to code specifically because I did not want to pay someone else to do it. 1, I can't always afford it, and 2, well, basically, I suck at words, and I really didn't want to end up going circles with someone, becoming a client from hell, because I couldn't articulate what I meant and wanted well enough to actually... get it. It just happens I apparently have the brain for it, so I did figure it out. Similar with why I built myself a server and it is in my basement. I'd rather have all the control over it.

 

Other hobbies are similar. I'll try doing it the cheapest way I can, but when that doesn't work out for one reason or another, I'll save up and splurge. I blew probably near, if not over, $100 on jewellery-making supplies once. That I made a few rings out of and got too busy to pay attention to later. I blow money on video games all the time, even micro-transaction/freemium games, because I like supporting games I enjoy, and I know what it costs to run online games, and I want to help them stay. I blew a LOAD of money, I can't even guess how much, on gardening supplies, and I have a bunch of succulents now that won't be useful for anything but being cool/pretty (all my production plants died off over winter, and didn't resprout this year). It depends on how much I can afford, feasibly, at the time. For the rest of the calendar year, I probably won't spend much of anything on hobbies, because I need to save up for a house, but you know, later, eh, can I blow that without dooming myself to Cup Ramen for two weeks? Yes? Green!

 

I know a lot of people frown on asking for donations, but really, if people like the site, some might consider helping. I've seen people get pissy about it, while others will buy like a year of premium cbox for sites they like. And that's nice, because a lot of the time, it's the staff getting that stuff paid for, so their members can use and enjoy it, and taking some of that burden off them is a tangibly kind gesture. It's not like anyone's forcing anyone else to buy anything to use a site, and most of the time, donations aren't even mentioned. Sooo, Idk why the hate. If I found a site I liked a lot and they had a donation pool, I'd probably chip in. MY sites that I run as an actual visible admin have my donation button on them (I help manage a couple but it's hush-hush, so no one can tell I'm staff unless they pay a lot of attention). I've also repeatedly devoted my time and coding expertise to sites I wanted to see do well (annnd they tanked anyway, but that's a story for another time).

 

The line between hobby and work is also very thin. Maybe many people play video games for fun, but for many others behind the scenes, video games are their job (look, making games is hard, I know, I've done it). Maybe watching movies is a hobby, but guess what, a lot of work went into making those (a LOT, I know, I've tried doing it). People say all the time one of their hobbies is reading, but someone wrote those books, someone else made the cover art, someone else printed/formatted those books, someone eLSE stocked and sold those books. There is basically nothing in the world that is absolutely, entirely free, except emotions and existential dread, and you know, screw those. I was born to a family full of farmers. Guess how many glossy-eyed, blank stares I get when I tell these people, accustomed to day in and day out of hard manual labour being the definition of 'work,' that I work on the computer. That I type on my little keyboard on my computer and make magic happen. I'm accustomed to this kind of viewpoint.

 

Someone, somewhere, some time, put in a lot of work to make what most see as a hobby available to them. I feel people need to remember that. You cannot take and take and take, and never give back, because someday, there won't be anything left to take.

[Morrigan 1,826]

Fun fact? @Arceus I've bought a year of premium cbox for sites I just simply liked. Not even ones that I've stayed on or even considered joining.

[Elena 546]

Giving your time, your work and your skills doesn't necessarily mean giving your money. I can't and don't pay for running a RPG- and our story is still there, in various sequels, for 8 years. I give my skills to it, and my time (and my husband's time sometimes), because we love it. My co-administrator does the same. She also could afford and wanted to pay for premium c-box. Good from her, I couldn't and I would have worked without it too.

 

She volunteered this donation. I wouldn't have asked for a donation, because I can't do a donation either. But I did other things, which didn't cost money, just love and time. I did prizes for competitions and other gifts, for example. My gifts, when they happened, however, were for members, not for the site, because this was what was possible from my side.

[CovertSphinx 710]

2 hours ago, Morrigan said:

 I've bought a year of premium cbox for sites I just simply liked. Not even ones that I've stayed on or even considered joining.

So basically you're a Superhero, is all I'm reading from this statement lol

 

I'll start by saying that 2 weeks into playing Pathfinder for the first time I dropped $60 on two completely custom character miniatures for my character (one for her "normal" form, the other for her true Kitsune form, so that I could switch them out on the table based on what she was doing that session. Because I was /that/ Xtra) even though the game lasted a month before two of my friends dropped out of the game citing it was "too stressful".  I didn't feel like I /HAD/ to put money into it, or had to have a miniature that looked exactly like my character vision to enjoy the game; I wanted to.  And that's the attitude I have when it comes to buying things for my (or somebody else's) RP. 

Some of the "it should be free" backlash might be because people are afraid that the "Norm" might become situations where the "Pay to Win" features are seen as basic necessities for sites. For example, JCink Premium's Smut-Won't-Get-You-Shut-Down Feature. How many Jcink boards out there are not premium anymore compared to several years ago - because an Itching in the community at large has evolved into thinking you have to have it to compete with the other RP sites for people's memberships. 

[Icewolf 258]

When I first started out with website building (not just role-play and forums), I had very little choice but to use free services as I didn't have a credit/debit card and there was no way that the bank would let me have a debit card as they wouldn't even let me have a cheque book! Later, I was reluctant to use my partner's card for it because it seemed a frivolous thing to spend money on. It wasn't until I had my own debit card (which came about because the bank I'm with changed everyone's account) that I felt I could justify the cost to myself. This wasn't down to it 'being a hobby' and that I shouldn't spend money on it - it was down to not physically being able to pay for it myself. I had always wanted a domain name and getting rid of the ads with free hosting. I suspect that a lot of kids making their boards, etc, will go for free hosting because they can't pay for it themselves and added to that, the knowledge needed to install and maintain software will no doubt be a huge barrier to them, as it is for older folks who aren't technically inclined.

 

As for how much you're willing to spend? It pretty much depends on what your needs are and how easy the software is to use, balanced with how much you can afford. When I was looking for software for my site, initially I wanted to try a social network software which I'd seen used, and liked, but for all the features I needed for it, I'd have to pay for it which was way above my budget. You also need to consider what would happen if the site didn't get enough users to justify the money you've paid. For that reason, the less money you've spent on it, the better. After hosting and the domain name, I prefer to spend money on materials I can use as ideas and resources for building plots and settings, rather than on layouts.

[Shades 676]

How do you feel about paying for your hobby?

I'm perfectly fine with that. Since my Proboards days, I have always paid for premium for my sites, because I wanted people to have the freedom to write whatever they wanted within reason, without having to worry about breaking ToS. If I care about something - namely, premium, a nice banner, etc - I'll be willing to pay for it. If I don't care about it particularly (a fancy skin, for example), I'm not paying.

 

As for donations, I'm perfectly fine with giving them if I have actual love for the site and can afford it (and if it's optional, something about mandatory donations just rubs me the wrong way). As an admin, I have never asked for them, but if someone donates I will make sure to put it towards making the site better and thank them profusely for it, giving credit where it's due.

[Huskerdust 625]

7 hours ago, Morrigan said:

Fun fact? @Arceus I've bought a year of premium cbox for sites I just simply liked. Not even ones that I've stayed on or even considered joining.

 

I have, too! Haha. I like doing it and I like supporting people I like. Same with Arceus, I put money into freemium games I want to support. Well I do the same thing with RP. I don't mind paying for my hobbies. Whenever I have extra money, that's what I do with it. I don't see it as any different than paying for a sports uniform or clay or paints or cloth. Whatever your hobby is, there's usually some point where you need to put some money into it.

 

[Kit the Human 759]

I never want to see a day where there are no free forum hosts. I love the accessibility and democracy of that.

 

I used to be fairly strict on how much I'd spend on rp. But then I had a look at how much spend on video games, books, movies, tv shows, and so on.  I mean, I was basically approaching my hobby like I was still on welfare and living on noodles. That's not the case anymore, I can drop some bucks! So I do.

 

Donations have never been something I was comfortable in accepting, but as a member it's all good. I've donated a good amount to this site!

[memoria 37]

16 hours ago, Kit the Human said:

There is an argument made by many (?) people that because something is a hobby, you shouldn't have to spend a lot or any money on it. Do you agree with that statement?

 

I can't think of a hobby that doesn't cost some amount of money. haha I'm sure there's something, but it's difficult to come up with an idea.

 

Anyway, as it's been phrased in the previous replies, if a person wants to invest in their hobbies - whether its roleplaying, gaming, baking/cooking, woodworking, whatever - no one should be judged for spending their own earned funds on something they enjoy. However, I do think there needs to be a bit of accountability for what a person is spending money on. Like, if it's between "Do I want to eat dinner tonight or pay for this custom code?", you should probably choose to eat dinner. But again, it's ultimately not up to me to make that final decision for a person.

[Jerriah 9]

Honestly, in my opinion, if you earned the money, it's yours. You can do whatever you please with it, so if it means that you'll be pushing it into your hobby/roleplay, donating to a site you really enjoy (or being an A+ human being like @Morrigan and @Zozma) , then do it!

 

I personally haven't been able to put money into my roleplay or any other roleplay before because I'm a broke as crap college student lmao. The money I have goes into things I need, but that doesn't mean I wouldn't do it. If I really love the roleplay, then I'm going to support it however I can, and if that means doing donations then you'll find me at the front of the line! As long as they're doing into what they say they are, of course.

[Rhindeer 217]

I pay for my stuff. Don't see anything weird with it,. as most of my hobbies cost money. (Art is expensive because supplies are pricey! Video games are expensive! Cosplay is expensive!) I bought hosting for my games because the free host I used back in the day screwed me over bad. Like, thousands of posts gone, ads everywhere, viruses in the ads, porn in the ads, and staff that didn't care to fix any of it. (Despite hundreds of users complaining about it and screenshotting it.)

 

So, I moved on, bought hosting, and continue to pay for it. Free hosts are great! But I personally could never trust them. I like the security that comes with hosting, and being in total control of my content.

 

My sites take donations, too. xD I didn't take them for a long time, but members kept asking me how they could donate and telling me to set one up, so I finally caved, lmao. I see nothing wrong about donations (I just felt weird about it at first, because I hate asking for things) and I donate to creators I love. I have seen sites though that BEG for donations, or worse, try to pressure people into donations, and that shit's just trashy and shady.