Staffing Are there too many roleplays out there?

[VirusZero 176]

In another location I saw it posited that in this day and age there simply are too many roleplays. That there are so many roleplays out there and not really enough people to actually enjoy them. (A case of too many chefs, not enough patrons as it were.) Could this also factor into why people are so reluctant to join anything but the perfect roleplay? (Because they have simply too many options to ever sort through and so no choice is made.)

 

But is this the case?

Do you think there are actually too many roleplays? What, if anything, could (or even should) be done? 

[jenneral_jennson 154]

I suppose it depends on your definition of too many. Too many what? Roleplays in general? Genre specific? Fandom specific? 

 

I don't think there are too many roleplays. I was lucky finding the one I'm in, it's a specific fandom RP (a book series I absolutely love), I've only come across it and one other. Are there tons of fandom rps that all revolve around the same fandom? Sure. Are there tons of genre specific rps? Definitely. But I don't really see the problem with it.

 

Lack of members means two things. Either the setting or environment is not conducive to lasting member bases or the board opens and closes within a space of two months for whatever reason. Some people have the latter happen repeatedly and they get burned, feeling like they'll never find that place. Some people have dealt with awful admins, awful members and a toxic environment and might not want to take a chance on a new game.

 

There are a lot of variables that could lead to a lack of membership, even a lack of adverting can do it. But no, I don't think there are too many roleplays out there. 

Edited March 5, 2017 by jenneral_jennson

[Kaycakes 78]

Hmm. I don't know about that. I mean, I think even if there were limited RPs available, people would be reluctant to join those if it didn't fit their muse / desires to play. Let's say there are only a few historicals, maybe BBC type of English historical, and none of them fit what I'd want to rp in, then it's likely that I'd pass those up and not RP at all in that genre.

 

One could, on one hand, look at this as sort of 'survival of the fittest', or maybe kinda capitalistic, in a way, but it isn't the most appropriate analogy. People will join a site that they think they will fit in, that suits their basic needs to RP and inspires their muse in that particular plot and setting. The ones that need more people to join but aren't getting them, well, they die off. The ones that are badly run and disorganized, they die off. You can see the pattern there.

 

On the other hand, it could be looked at as a home. Not all RPs are made to be competitive or totally ambitious, some may be private or designed with just a small group in mind. If we extend that metaphor even more, we can even say that owners may choose to sell off or shut down their homes / rentals. People staying or visiting under that roof may not want to stay / visit there long. I kind of prefer this analogy the most because RP, by its very nature, is a social thing.

 

Finally, I'm generally of the opinion that more options are better. It's usually people who want more for their own sites who might worry that there are too many other sites out there. I like that we have thousands of options to choose from for gaming, technology, food, clothing, etc. We have hundreds of options for living arrangement. The real limit is how many people there are, I suppose, just as there are limits to how many friends or players we can handle having (monkey sphere).

[xexes 108]

I agree.

 

Too many choices leads to sparser populations

 

When you looked for a genre, there used to be 1-2 main ones and a handful of offshoots. There were some very long-running, very big games. You simply got up and running and your audience would find you. There was none of this mass-advertising, posting 50 ads a day hoping to gain a single member or two a week. You posted maybe 5 a week and got just as many new members. Back then all sites had directory-like advertising rules unto themselves because it was powerful, unlike now.

 

Imagine a restaurant. There are only 5 combo meals, right? So the chef cooks five different things, maybe 5 people order each thing a day. Now imagine the owner gets creative and ambitious and there are now 15 different combos. But, the restaurant isn't suddenly going to get more people, they have only the same amount of people (maybe a wee bit more), so instead of 5 people to a dish, it's now 1-2 people per dish because now there are 15 of them. The dishes are sites.

 

Players become too picky

With more choices, people have become pickier. I see a lot of "I only join roleplays that advertise with text AND an image". Sometimes it boils down to preferences, sometimes it is just a yearning for something different and novel. But there's a lot of prejudice. A surprising amount. And they can afford it because there are so many choices. I am seeing three different categories for Harry Potter roleplays on many directory sites.

 

Members become too cliquey

 

In turn, sites have become much more clicquey than they were before, groups more tighter knit and less accepting of outsiders because the members they do have are much more conformed to what they represent; there are fewer oddballs. The oddball who was a #13 who hung out with the #5's because that's all there was has now migrated to the #13 leaving the #5 group far less diverse and less understanding.

 

Too much copy-cat

 

There's a lot of hatred towards sameness. This comes from cooks in the kitchen who are not so much cooks as people who see what they can do and decide to do it. We live in a day and age where you don't have to be a pro to do these things (back in the day you either had the skill or knew someone who did), and as a result, everyone is. The same 5 skins make up 50% of all roleplays out there, period, which isn't right.

 

Why this happened

 

I can't say that resource sites are to blame for the too many sites but I can say that they helped. These days anyone can create a website with tools like Wix and Weebly and Wordpress, and maybe it is that movement more than anything of power-enabling that founded this era of too many cooks and not enough indians.

[Bishop 172]

I don't know. I kind of miss the day when there were so many historical sites out there that you weren't narrowed down to a select few. I ended up joining one that wasn't my thing only because it was the best out there at the time.

 

But I think the best answer I can give for this? 

 

People need to stop making 'fad' RP's, like just because there is a TV show about it doesn't mean there needs to be an RP. THAT I feel, really is exhausting to see. If the show only holds your attention for a little bit anyway but suddenly you are inspired to make an RP for it, don't. Go play privately about it. Write a fanfiction. If you are invested in it or invested in the genre THEN put your time and effort into it.

 

So I think that is my take on this topic. There are not too many roleplays out there, just ones that don't have the staying power.

 

If I had a dollar for every GoT inspired site I'd be rich, but can only count on one hand the ones that have been open for a year or more.

 

[jenneral_jennson 154]

To each their own I suppose. The way I see it. Keep going. You want to make a "fad" RP? Go for it. You want to make a vampire, werewolf, witch, master/slave RP? Go for it. If you can make your plot and storyline interesting enough, there's always going to be at least one person who's interested in it.

 

I feel like telling people to stop something because you think it's dumb is detrimental. Maybe they're young and just starting out. Maybe that's the easiest thing for them to do to begin. What if it completely shuts them off a hobby or fun past time for them because you think there's too many of this that or the other RP or think it's over done. 

 

Again. I don't think there's too many RPs out there. Let people have their fun whether it's for a month or six years. 

[VirusZero 176]

For the discussion question, I left that open ended... Are there some genres which have too many? Feel free to talk specific genres if you want. If you'd rather go with more general then feel free.

 

In the broadest sense, I do think there are too many roleplays now. Yes there are genres which don't get much attention, but they tend to be smaller/niche genres. (Older games/movies/tv shows/books that not as many follow now.) But then there are some which are well past saturation point (more on this in a bit).

 

People get the faintest inkling for an idea and they start making a site. (Those fad sites being an issue for certain.) Or they do the interest check thing and then make a site. They largely don't even look to see if a site exists. There's no compromise at all. It's "I want to make this site" for me. Consider a while ago during the Harry Potter boom. Those sites were all the rage (still are really) and so many opened up simply because people wanted to play <character> or have their preferred ship. They didn't join other sites because the character they wanted was taken or their ship wasn't happening. So they made their own site, for them. And as a result tons of sites opened then failed because they were unsustainable. (Sometimes it was because the admin wasn't a good fit, others it was because they had nothing new/unique to add, others it was simply unrealistic expectations, further still others died because there were just too many choices.)

 

Having choice is good to a point. But then after that point it becomes detrimental. It's very much like Xexes stated... too many options thinned the population down. 

 

 

Why did this happen? I think it happened because the difficulty of opening/running a site dropped. Options like InvisionFree (and later Jcink) became more prevalent and made it easy for anyone to open a site. People didn't need as much specialized knowledge. (Instead of needing to be able to deal with PHP, people could get by on HTML/CSS. And there's a big difference between those languages...) That lowered the bar for entry and suddenly more could start sites. People who previously would either have never tried or would have given up, opened sites. This meant competition rose dramatically.

On top of that a wealth of resources (themes, codes, templates, images, etc...) made it much easier to get started. So if someone wanted to start a site they didn't have to design the theme, spend hours making images and putting it all together. Using pre-made resources, someone could essentially get a site up in a few hours.

 

Though one thing I want to make clear... I'm not saying people shouldn't roleplay.

What I am saying is not to rush into creating a site just because you can. Instead curb that itch and look for other sites. Help someone else out instead of adding to the pile of competition. Then if you want to get more involved... Become staff on a site. (Goodness knows most sites would love to have the extra help.)

But if you really must open a site... ensure that you want to do it, that you have something to add and aren't just going to get bored in a month. 

[jenneral_jennson 154]

Why shouldn't they though? Is it really that big of an issue for someone to start a roleplay because they want to or have an itch to scratch? It's a learning experience. Leadership, coding, team building all of these can and are applicable to the real world. Building and creating roleplays can even be used on resumes.

 

I guess I still don't get why there is such a problem with people wanting to do something on the internet that doesn't really effect anyone but themselves and the few people who may or may not join their board. I didn't realize that there was a monopoly on RPs and only people with a specific drive could open them. If I had the time or inclination I'd probably open one simply because I've never actually done so and figure it would be fun while it lasted. 

[Rune 1,099]

I don't think there can be too many of one thing.

 

Even if you are getting into super niche genres, as long as there are people that want to play that thing, you're good. It isn't like there are 100 of us total and we have to share between 10 websites. There are thousands if not millions of RPers. Some just don't like forums, some dislike Jcink, some hate Proboards, others only RP on MMOs, etc. 

 

The community might seem small, but to say there's too many is like telling everyone else to screw off, you were here first and your site should survive and no one else is allowed to play.

[Josie 198]

I think this is a complicated topic to respond to so my post will probably just be confusing and mostly nonsensical word vomit. But the short answer is: no.

 

This makes me think of the subject of what a "successful" site is. Everyone's idea of success is something different and I think everyone's idea of "too many" is as well. It is possible that some people might feel that the amount of other sites has impacted the ability of their site to be successful, but I do not personally feel this has been a problem in my own experiences. For me, the success of a site is not determined by the amount of people on it, but the quality of the storytelling experience. If I'm having fun- if my partners are having fun- then it's a success. I don't need many people for this to happen, so even if there is a lot of other selection in the genre my forum is in then I don't feel it really moves me in any way.

 

I would love to analyze the topic with some solid numbers, like how many RPers there actually are out there, how many new people pick up RPing a year- and how many drop it as a hobby. I suspect there has been an increase in the number of forums out there due to how easy it is to create one nowadays, however I would wager that the growth of the RP community has not kept up with the amount of forums created, thus making it seem like the there are too many choices to realistically populate. There's probably some formula that can be drawn to determine how many forums are needed to sustain x population at this rate of increase or whatever, but this is just the nerd in me talking and this line of thinking is fairly irrelevant anyway since we can't get an accurate measurement of basically any of these things.

 

Which leads to another thought: our perception on this might simply just be warped. The amount of forums and the people in the RP community brought together by resource forums is actually fairly small, all things considered. I can think of it almost like light pollution. In a city at night, very few stars can be visible. But there are countless more stars beyond what the light of the city blocks out, even if we can't easily see them.

 

As to what should be done... I say nothing. Even if I believed there were too many forums, this would still be my response. I can think of forums a lot like evolution. Survival of the fittest. Evolve or die. No matter the amount of forums out there, the ones that aren't fit for survival (based on innumerable factors) will die. The more forums there are, the more death there is. But there will always be the survivors, and generally around the same number of them too. Yet even the survivors eventually die, and make room for new forums to climb to the top.

 

Well, I suppose I might have contradicted myself a little there. What should be done? As the owner of a forum? Evolve. Be better. Be more determined to survive than your counterparts and predecessors. Just because this is a hobby does not mean that it is easy or should be easy, and especially since this is a hobby that we actively involve other people in we have in fact chosen (or been called to) a difficult one. Interacting with other people on the level which we do is not and never has been an easy task for most people.

[Kit the Human 759]

In RP land, if there are few RP forums, you're forced to make do with communities and RP approaches that may not work for you. If you're lucky, you might be in a position to help change that to something you enjoy. But you're a small fish in a big pond in this scenario (few RPs see?) so the chances of that is small.

 

So you might stick it out. Or you might just quit RP because it's half in the chore land. (That's what happened to me when I couldn't find a RP that worked for me. I left it for years.)

 

Today though, the chances of someone creating a forum with a community and approach that you enjoy is increased. Sure you have more to wade through to get there, but hey, I have to wade through a lot of cafes to find the coffee I love. I really like coffee though so the effort is worth it. Same with RP.

 

I think encouraging would be admins to really question whether or not they need or want to make their forum is a good thing. I think people searching for the forum first and joining to see if it works for them (before making their own) is a good thing too. They're good things because adminning is a commitment and should be treated as such.

 

But too many RPs? Nah. I don't think so.

 

Also: a little competition forcing you to burn a little brighter isn't a bad thing.

[Elena 546]

1 hour ago, Gothams Reckoning said:

For me, the success of a site is not determined by the amount of people on it, but the quality of the storytelling experience. If I'm having fun- if my partners are having fun- then it's a success. I don't need many people for this to happen.

 

This is the only thing I partially disagree with you from your whole post. Sometimes, the quality of the storytelling experience is limited by the amount of characters needed in the story and which aren't taken because the existing writers consider they have reached their character limit (or they don't want x type of character). In this case, the having fun part is partially affected, and there would be more people needed for the characters to be taken. 

 

1 hour ago, Kit the Human said:

I think encouraging would be admins to really question whether or not they need or want to make their forum is a good thing. I think people searching for the forum first and joining to see if it works for them (before making their own) is a good thing too. They're good things because adminning is a commitment and should be treated as such.

 

I agree very much to this. And to the fact most people had said, that there are many sites not meant to survive, made in a whim, without proper thought and commitment. 

[jenneral_jennson 154]

5 hours ago, Kit the Human said:

I think encouraging would be admins to really question whether or not they need or want to make their forum is a good thing. I think people searching for the forum first and joining to see if it works for them (before making their own) is a good thing too. They're good things because adminning is a commitment and should be treated as such.

 

This is actually the only thing I don't agree with. If you are constantly questioning their ability to do it or if they should do it, how will they ever find out if they can? How are they ever going to learn how much of a commitment it is and whether they have the tenacity to stick it out and make it work? If I had people in my life who were constantly questioning my career choices and my ability to do them, I never would have had the courage or determination to do just that.

 

Questioning every little thing a would be admin wants to do or questioning their ability to do it isn't going to make the situation better (which is silly to say because the situation is neither), if anything, it will turn some person who has aspirations and desires off of doing what they think is right for them. Again. Let people have their fun. What harm is it doing to you?

 

and if you're worried about the amount of RPs out there and your own member base my only suggestion is make your site better then. Competition is good for you. It will make you think and develop and come up with ideas instead of remaining stagnant because you've run all the competition off with trying to force them into non existence.

Edited March 7, 2017 by jenneral_jennson

[Josie 198]

1 minute ago, jenneral_jennson said:

 

This is actually the only thing I don't agree with. If you are constantly questioning their ability to do it or if they should do it, how will they ever find out if they can?

I don't think this is what @Kit the Human meant, but I could be wrong.

 

I did not interpret Kit's statement as meaning that a person should question their ability, just whether or not this is something they really need or want to do. I saw it more as a "explore your options and think twice" sort of thing. Before going and making your own thing- does what you want exist elsewhere? If it does but doesn't work for you, why doesn't it work for you? Do you have ideas on how to improve and create something better? What are they?

 

That sort of thing. Not "I have ideas- but do I have the ability to make them happen?" Because you're right. If you constantly question yourself, then you're not going to get far.

 

If you constantly challenge yourself, that's a different story. However, there's not always a need to challenge yourself when everything you want is already right there for you- unless you still want to challenge yourself anyway.

 

If I understood what Kit meant correctly, then I can agree with the idea that that's a good thing in general to do- just explore your options and think through things before going on and making a forum. Though I do not necessarily agree that it would stop the whole "too many forums" thing from still being an "issue," since everyone's needs and wants are different. In fact, if everyone paused to consider things twice before starting or joining a forum, it could be possible that we wind up with even more of them. xD

[Crossroads Demon 11]

I would have to agree with the general statement in the sense that there are too many Roleplays in the sense that there are roleplays being created every week that people who create them often give up on them really quickly. I see this constantly when I'm doing my advertising linkbacks. They'll post 4 days earlier and then I go to link back and they're suddenly 'Offline' when they've been open less than a month. 

 

Nothing is an instant success, it requires time, effort and a lot of work. 

 

Member building takes time and depending on the genre/fandom etc the appeal might be small so you'll have to work harder to draw people in. Big member base doesn't always mean success and more members doesn't always mean more activity it's the quality of the members that matters. 

 

A big problem I notice among RPers is flakiness, people who join, get so far as to create their character and then never actually post or participate, even when they're being offered multiple threads/opportunities from multiple people. Which holds up characters/plots and essentially the site especially if they take a canon (which in my experience they often do).

 

I just opened a new site myself and I had quite few members who joined the first day took canon roles, made their claims and then literally never came back. That was a month ago. We are active and gradually growing and I'm dedicated to making it succeed but there are SO MANY members like that it's difficult to build a good writing relationship when you're not sure you can trust other members to stick around.

 

Personally, I see sites each and every single day and I don't join any of them because I'm huge on the community aspect. Plot may sound great, it may have 100 registered accounts but I look at actual thread activity, writing quality and member inclusion, I watch how the Admins interact with their members, how members interact with each other. There has to be a level of respect for all or the site is not going to succeed.